Total Defense? What else can you do?

[dr_nukem]

Can you Hide, Tumble, Jump, etc (movement type action) while using the Total Defense action?

SRD:
Total defense [Standard][AoO: No]

Description: A combatant doesn't attack or perform any other activity other than moving at base speed, but the combatant gets a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. The combatant's AC improves at the start of this action, so it helps against any attacks of opportunity provoked while moving.

For example, a rogue is trying to hide from a fighter. The rogue declares he is going TD, then hides/moves. Valid or not?

Basically, does TD explicitly deny EVERYTHING *BUT* movement? What about actions that count as movement equivelant actions?

Cheers

 

[Magnus]

SRD:
Total defense [Standard][AoO: No]

Description: A combatant doesn't attack or perform any other activity other than moving at base speed

 

[Trellian]

Well, you can tumble as part of a move action, and I guess you can do the same with move silently and hide
Move-equivalent actions such as drinking a potion are not allowed as far as I can tell, but I don't have any books to support my claims though..

 

[Darklone]

Hmm

Tumble and jump and whatever are not only ME actions but part of a move, so you can use those for sure. Hiding? Why should he go on defence if he can hide? Does the fighter close his eyes and count to 10?

I would think it's nonsense.

Ruleswise: Since you can only move half your speed while trying to sneak or hide, I'd say it's different from simply moving. You can take that 5point penalty for moving full, but I still would call it nonsense.

Do you guys allow someone to walk away from combat and hide? Well, there are those ridiculous hide in plain sight abilities....

 

[Rashak Mani]

We judged that only a simple move (not double) can be done... otherwise everyone would drink potion in Total Defense... everyone would Hide in Total Defense and so forth.

Total Defense has to be a tough decision otherwise you will do everything in TD

 

[Caliban]

Theoretically you can try to Hide while on Total Defense, but remember that it is impossible to hide while being observed.

I probably give you a penalty on the bluff check if you try to Bluff, Hide, and do Total Defense.

 

[Artoomis]

This is a topic I've been looking at a bit lately for my Guide to Ambiguous Rules.

A few considerations:

1. Within the context of "A combatant doesn't attack or perform any other activity other than moving at base speed" what does "any "other activity" mean? I assume it means anything not a free action, at the least. The harshest interpretion would have you prohibited even from free actions and taking any AoOs you might otherwise be entitled to take.

2. Since Total Defense is a Standard Action, only one move should be allowed (also it says "move at base speed" which implies only your base speed, not a double move). Further, this move is not the move associated with Total Defense, but is the normal move you take in addition to your standard action.

3. From the SRD: "Move-Equivalent Action: Move-equivalent actions take the place of movement in a standard action or take the place of an entire partial action. The combatant can normally also take a 5 foot step." This would seem to imply you cannot take a Move-Equivalent action - though I think the PHB guidance may allow a Move-Equivalent action instead any move). In either case, since the Total Defense action states you can only MOVE, you would think that it means MOVE and not move-equivalent action.

4. I think you can take free actions and take advantage of AoO opportunities (as that is like a free action in that it does not count against any of your actions). I would be a littel more limiting in what free actions are allowed, heavy DM discretion is called for here.

Whether or not you can Tumble or Hide depends on how you think of those actions.

Tumble is part of a move and is a defensive manuever, so it sort of fits well and probably should be allowed.

I don't see how you can be actively defending yourself extra well and also hide. It seems couter-intuitive to me. However, the Hide skill seems to indicate you can always try unless you are being observed. So, if you are not being observed (or you succeed in a Bluff check I suppose you could try. Since you are using Total Defense, which I see as being quite active in your defense, you would get the standard -5 penalty to your Hide check, at the least.

edit: It appears that the Bluff check is a free action. It seems to me to be another action you are trying to do while using Total Defense, so you'd have to consider whether it is even allowed.

 

[dvvega]

Artoomis:

1) your Ambiguous Rules List is a good thing, thank you for doing it.

2) your argument is a well formed one, with references to definitions from the player's handbook

3) as you've probably guessed, I'm about to give you a "but". What people are assuming here is that Hide, Tumble, Bluff (these are what you used in your argument) are Free Actions, and so can be performed (since total defense implies normal actions are banned). I read the text of those skills as being PART of other actions.

Tumble is part of a Move action, Hide is a Move/Move Eq action, Bluff is a standard action if in combat and trying to feint. This would mean that they must be made as part of another action.

In addition, there is precedent to make Total Defence not allow any other actions except move. There are "special moves" that bypass the standard rules in the game. Examples: charge (double move with attack), grapple/trip (can be used on an AOO even if you're unarmed and have no Imp. Unarmed Feat), and so forth.

I think this is one of those rules that either the writer of the maneuver must say "this is what I meant".

 

[Number47]

My question is, can I use Total Defense as a Haste partial action after I already used a full-round action? Can I use Total Defense if I am slowed (reduced to partial-action only)?

 

[Caliban]

Tumble is part of a Move action, Hide is a Move/Move Eq action, Bluff is a standard action if in combat and trying to feint. This would mean that they must be made as part of another action.

Total Defense allows a Move Action. That is why we believe that you can do Hide, and Bluff can be done as a free action to allow you to Move and Hide.