Total..er..partial..er somewhat chaos?

[Goldmoon]

I receiently had my Paladin's powers revoked for something I thought was bull. Let me explain the situation and see what you all think. Maybe it was justified and Im just mad for no reason.


Brief synopsis to get to the meat of the matter. Our party found outself in a dimention we could not identify facing another group we had never seen. Long story short we won out over them and proceeded to claim their items. One of them was a former Paladin turned Blackguard who was weilding a very powerful unholy reaver (Basically an artifact of evil) My Paladin claimed the sword as part of her loot so she could take it back to the church and have it destroyed properly. We were later informed by a strange voice that we would be shown to a portal that would take us home but we would each only be allowed to remove 5 magic items fom this dimention. After the fight and looting we were each carrying about 9 or 10. We werent happy with that but we want to get home so we began choosing our keepers. My Paladin gets her count down to 6 including the evil sword she insists on bringing to her church. She just cant part with any of the six remaining items. She decides to claim a wand of Fireball for her own even though she cant use it. She places the evil sword on the ground in an open area, hands the wand to our Wizard and asks him to Fireball the sword until is is destroyed. Sixteen charges later, there is one less Evil Artifact Sword in the world and my Paladin is feeling pretty good about her self. She leaves the dimention with five magic items and a piece of slag formerly known as an evil artifact. Immediately after exiting the portal we come under attack. After the battle I go to Lay on hands on our one of my companions and my DM says "You dont feel the power flowing through you". He later tells me my actions to destroy the sword on my own rather than return it to the church for proper destruction were "Incredibly chaoatic and completely wrong" and thats why he decided to revoke my Paladins powers.

Am I just whining or is that bull?

 

[Artoomis]

It's pushing it, at the very least. Really, that should not have been a big deal. Possibly a but self-centered, but that's allowed for a Paladin.

I personally feel that an act that will strip an Paladin should be pretty well-understood to do so by the Paladin (and player) before the powers are stripped. Often such an act might be a real problem in picking the lesser of two evils, but such is the Paladin's lot in life.

In this case the DM should have let you know that doing this would violate his vows (or however he wanted to say it) and allow you to decide what was most important.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's bull.

But, it's not as much bull as the "take only 5 items" crap. I'd love to hear the rationale for that baloney.

 

[Artoomis]

Law Vs. Chaos and Paladin

This may help somewhat:

=srd]Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.

Devotion to law or chaos may be a conscious choice, but more often it is a personality trait that is recognized rather than being chosen. Neutrality on the lawful-chaotic axis is usually simply a middle state, a state of not feeling compelled toward one side or the other. Some few such neutrals, however, espouse neutrality as superior to law or chaos, regarding each as an extreme with its own blind spots and drawbacks.

Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral. Dogs may be obedient and cats free-spirited, but they do not have the moral capacity to be truly lawful or chaotic.

Assuming this was not a evil act (it really was a good act, in fact)) then, from the DM's point of view you must have:

1. Grossly violated your code or
2. Are now not LG in alignment.

If you are fairly high level (it sound likes maybe you are), then, certainly while in out in the field, your ARE the church authority and destroying the sword on-the-spot is well within you authority, I would think. Perhaps it is considered best to bring such things back to the church, but, is the church guidance to do so not matter the personal cost? I suspect the church would bow to the on-the-spot decision made by your character.

Not to mention, of course, that any magic items left behind tend to weaken the Paladin which is not a good thing for everyone that depends upon this character.

An any case all is not lost becasue:

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.

 

[Mimic]

Personally, sounds like bull to me. Actually let me rephrase that, sounds like the DM was pissed that you thought of a unique way to get rid of an evil artifact and he is trying to punish you for it.

 

[Artoomis]

It's bull.

But, it's not as much bull as the "take only 5 items" crap. I'd love to hear the rationale for that baloney.

Well, it's some sort of portal, perhaps more than 5 magic items overloads it? Besides, it sounds like was not the ONLY option, only the most expidient.

 

[Vorput]

Complete and total Bull... and the DM trying to cover a bad move on their part by limiting the amount of magic items FROM THAT DIMENSION to go through the portal is ever bigger bull.

How is carrying around an evil sword a better act than destroying it? Sounds to me like the DM had some sort of plans for that sword which you destroyed, and now he's getting annoyed and spiteful.

Vorp

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sounds to me like the DM had some sort of plans for that sword which you destroyed, and now he's getting annoyed and spiteful.

It couldn't have been any significant plans. I'm guessing the word "artifact" here is the player's term, not the DM's. Either that or the DM is unaware that artifacts cannot (or perhaps 'should not' is the operative term) be destroyed by just any old method.

If the evil sword were in fact an artifact in my campaign, bombarding it with fireballs would not likely be the one and only method to destroy it.

 

[Goldmoon]

Complete and total Bull... and the DM trying to cover a bad move on their part by limiting the amount of magic items FROM THAT DIMENSION to go through the portal is ever bigger bull.

How is carrying around an evil sword a better act than destroying it? Sounds to me like the DM had some sort of plans for that sword which you destroyed, and now he's getting annoyed and spiteful.

Vorp

Thats what I think. Hes pissed because I outsmarted him.

 

[werk]

It's bull.

But, it's not as much bull as the "take only 5 items" crap. I'd love to hear the rationale for that baloney.

Seconded. I can't even imagine our DM (or myself) trying to pull that omnipotent inventory manager BS, the game would end right there on the spot.