TOUCHY SUBJECT RANT: What if you don't like the people you game with?

[dreaded_beast]

I feel for them because you decieved them, and in the end this cheated them and you of a better more honest experience.

Honesty is the only way to go through life - and frankly tact will make that honesty work (despite how harsh I often come across online, in person I'm soft spoken and tactful). Parting with people you dislike in a polite way will not hurt them. Expressing your feelings towards them, so that people can work to address issues and build friendship rather than dislike will help everyone.

Honestly, I find it abhorant what you have done - lie to people for years on end and subject both yourself and them to a false friendship.

I can't believe someone would choose to associate with people they did not like for a long term commitment. It's just outside of what I consider concievable.

If you had been honest with this DM, or parted with him/her and the group rather than sit there in dishonest resentment I might perhaps feel for you rather than him/her.

Honesty is again, the only way to live.

I agree with you in regards to honesty being the best way to live, but unfortunately I do not entirely agree that this is true to life. Based on my personal experience within my gaming group, honesty is sometimes meet with hurt feelings or bruised egos regardless of how much tact or consideration is involved.

But I wish the world was truly one where people could be honest without fear of repercussion.

There have been times where attempts to actually confront the DM with some concerns. For example, when we expressed some of our feelings to the DM (other players and myself), saying that he was a bit too snappy at times, he just could not conceive that he ever acted that way.

His response was always, "I don't think I ever acted like that".

If we tried to push the issue, then he would start to get irritated so we let it go. But the thing that eventually got to me was that he could never consider that he ever acted in such a way and he would get irritated, even though he would continue to say that he was open to all comments and suggestions, which he was for the most part. But if it was a comment or suggestion, he didn't like, that when it got difficult.

So attempts were made, but they never got anywhere, hence the bottling up of my concerns.

However, I understand your point of view and can see where you are coming from. I wish things could always be handled the way you have described and probably are within your campaign or elsewhere. If you are the DM, I applaud your efforts for trying to keep the lines of communication open with your players, and if you are a player, I envy your ability to have no fear of repercussion when speaking to your DM.

Unfortunately, my experience was not the same, but if there were more people with your attitude out there, maybe I would not have left my former group and we could have solved our problems.

 

[Kichwas]

If they were the sort of people with which the issues could not be resolved, you should have left a lot earlier.

It doesn't do you any good to stay with people who aren't reasonable about listening to and addressing your concerns.

Now I know we can't all game with our friends, but we can all make friends out of the people we do game with.

In finding your next group, be very selective and willing to just take your time. When I recruit I do it with interviews in non gaming settings. I prefer coffee shops. There I try to get a vibe on the person as well as see how others in the place react to them (just in case my empathy is low on that day).

If you've had a lot of bad experiences, make it multiple meetings before you start (or join) the game.

Ideally, choose to DM, so you have control over forming the group. If you're just organizing and you recruit a DM everyone will tend to want to confer a lot of the organizing and recruiting duties off to that person once he/she is in place.

Recruit people who could be friends, which you can do by feeling them out in the initial interviews. See how interests match, or personalities mesh.


Don't ever settle on a group of people you don't like, and leave as soon as it turns that way if for some reason or another attempts to address and/or correct it fail.

That's the core of what mystified and distressed me about you - that you stayed with them after you found you did not like them.

I would hate to think one of my own players was doing that, and would hope that if they began feeling ill towards me or another member they took steps to address it. But in the end, I would hate to have a person coming over to my house every week that didn't like me, or that I didn't like. It wouldn't be good for me or them.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I feel for them because you decieved them, and in the end this cheated them and you of a better more honest experience.

While I see your point, you're really kind of assuming the DM is a certain kind of person. You assume that the Honest Open Relationship would work the the DM. I'm sure he considered himself open to criticism, but if the player didn't find the same, then how open was he really? If the player keeps repeating himself, it's not Open and Honest, it's Nagging and Whining.

it flows both ways though, the DM should obviously have seen that one of his players was disatisfied. If there's a guy that plays the game but avoids the rest of the group and otherwise acts withdrawn, the DM can broach the subject as easily as the player.

Honestly, I find it abhorant what you have done - lie to people for years on end and subject both yourself and them to a false friendship.

I can't believe someone would choose to associate with people they did not like for a long term commitment. It's just outside of what I consider concievable.

having been in similar situations before, I'll present my experience, since I can't speak for his.
It's not like you don't like these folks and play with them in spite of that. You start off fine, sociable. You'll find yourself getting aggravated more and more though, as minor situations that come up aren't resolved, and your questions/ concerns are rebuffed. It's not an overnight transition though, going from "you guys are fun" to "you guys are infuriating."
Eventually, you reach a point where you realize the people in the game are detracting from the game for you. You realize how much you've tried to say before and it failed, so you make a decision, either stick with it, and hope the good outweighs the bad, or you just leave. There's no dishonesty about not saying anything, and the status quo continues.

Eventually, you realize the longer you're around these people, the more infuriating they've become, and you just leave. Perhaps with a polite excuse, perhaps with yelling and hand gestures.

What's also important a lot of times, is that you're one member in the group. While the rest of them are getting along great and having fun, you're getting tired of it. If they're cliquish, and you're not interested in fitting into their method's, there's no sense in trying to get them to change to your views.

Honesty is again, the only way to live.

While I'm sure you try to live your life by such a motto, I"m sure you're also aware that a person you're dealing with in life doesn't always. This situation isn't something that's all one person's fault necasarily.

 

[Desdichado]

I've gamed with folks who weren't my friends before, when I had recently moved, 3e was new, and I was jonesin' to get a game going on.

It wasn't a bad experience, and at least a few people out of that group I wouldn't mind seeing again, or gaming with again for that matter.

But there's nothing like gaming with folks you get along with. Right now, my much contracted gaming group is shadowlight and myself and Mrs. shadowlight. We've played with a few others, but that's the core group, and we get along great.

Part of the reason we're organizing this whole Detroit Gameday is to find people that we can get along with, and game with, and enjoy.

In fact, this Thursday I'm meeting with a potential player that I think will probably not only be an excellent player, but the kind of guy we can hang around with when not gaming and enjoy.

In short, gaming's fun and all that, but it's not the only reason to get together. If I'm getting together with folks that are only gaming acquaintances, and I have nothing else in common with, I'm unlikely to be very excited to keep that up.

 

[Nightfall]

Dread,

I know how you feel. My advice, don't game with them. Find other outlets for gaming (online or something like that.) Try going to conventions near by. Best of all, get people from the boards that you DO like to come visit you.

 

[LGodamus]

Honestly my situation is much like Takyris......I have always just gamed with aquaintances , the one time I gamed with all my best friends the group never ever got anything done, and half the time we never even played D&D we just ended up hanging out.

 

[Nightfall]

LG,

Yeah but at least your "friends" don't toss ashtrays at your head.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

Dreaded_Beast, you sound an AWFUL lot like someone who just contacted me about joining my new D&D group. My e-mail address is celeneofforrin@excite.com; are you the same individual who is experiencing gaming difficulty with his DM, lives in Hawaii, and was sending out feelers for whether it would be OK to join us at my house?

I really have to admit to you that you sound like a very thoughtful person, very introspective, but perhaps overly so. I doubt very much that the others in your group are unaware of your unhappiness; as much as you say you've tried to cover up your true feelings, it's almost impossible to do so over a lengthy period of time. The others in the group no doubt sense your unhappiness and just wish you would leave so you don't continue to spoil their fun. Disclaimer: I'm not a part of your current soon-to-be-no-more group, so I might be full of horse doo doo on this. BUT, from reading this thread and (if you are indeed the guy who e-mailed me) your e-mails, my first and overwhelming impression is that you're a player on the run and that no group is going to make you happy right now.

That said, if you are actually the guy looking for a group, then I still want to meet you in person so you and I can see what the other is about. I e-mailed the others in the group and at least one of them expressed interest in you joining us (the others haven't replied).

And, hey, if I'm just a dead wrong moron and you don't know two beans about my group and don't want to join us, then I apologize and probably most of this post is completely irrelevant!

--Wendy

 

[pogre]

I find convention gaming to have a much worse rate of acceptability than games I've set up with random people from my circle of friends.

I am most often grossly disappointed by the RPG's at conventions, and pretty much resign myself to strategy gaming at cons now (when I go at all).

Two years ago I would have totally agreed with TB, but last year running RPGA at GenCon was a great experience. Super nice people and a great experience all around.

I used to just play with long time friends. Now, however, most of my friends from the old days have moved away. My gaming group consists of folks that I have gotten to know through gaming. As the group evolves I recruit new people to replace those who get transferred, finish school, or leave the area for whatever reason.

We have a great group and I basically only see them at gaming. However, they are all human beings and exceptionally nice people. Sometimes a person I recruit to the table does not work out. I firmly but politely ask them to leave after a couple of sessions. Never an easy task, but keeps the game fun.

 

[S'mon]

I think the player-DM relationship is an important one in any group; if the player doesn't trust the DM they shouldn't be playing IMO. Likewise if the DM doesn't trust the player (not to cheat, not to insult other players, et al) they should probably suggest the player should leave. Player-player relations are a bit less important but if players actively dislike each other they should really look for a different group.