Towards a Grittier d20 Trek!

Diggus Rex said:
Thanks for the imput Myth, feat revised into a three feat tree now.

I still need the races list, wanna check out Raven's thoughts. I went to his thread but there's only background races on it.


What would you like my thoughts on?

EDIT: Oh, the mind meld thing? You've seen my take in the document/races thing. It seems like different Vulcans have different capabilities, and that these capabilities can grow over the Vulcan's lifetime. Hence my expanded tree.
 

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Diggus Rex said:
I like Mara's concept and background alot, although she may wish to mind her manners around Nimal. ;)

The Betazoid traits seem a bit too modelled off Troi. Being an open and honest to a fault people, the racial bonus to Sense Motive seems inconsistent. It makes sense for Mara to develope this skill, given her concept and experiences away from her home.

In general, their telepathy seems a bit overpowered. What's the DC for their telepathy to detect others not in line of sight? This article provides some good guidance for revision.

Actually, I think the bonus to Sense Motive is what keeps them honest with one another...If your mom always known when you're lying, why would you even try it? Now imagine if EVERYONE around you knew when you were lying...

The ability is totally modelled of Troi...and Troi... (Deanna and Lwaxana respectively). Most of the other Betazoids appearing on the series were one-shots. Tam Elbrun was a super-telepath, with mind reading off the chart that caused psychological problems because he couldn't turn it off (which would be like like shutting an eyelid, which Betazoids usually can do). And Lon Suder was the telepathic equivalent of illiterate IMHO. Neither seem to be standard.

Honestly, there are very few instances where Betazoid telepathy has not been solely receptive in nature. In "Tin Man," it's hinted that Gomtuu contacted Tam, which enabled the 2 to communicate. And in "Fascination," Lwaxana's emotion projection is caused by Zanthi Fever, which may actually cause the usually receptive telepathy to become projective.

Here's a revision: [still unsure about range]

Betazoid Telepathy [Racial Feat]: Through the natural telepathic sense provided by their paracortex, Betazoids can detect sentient minds at a distance. At a range of 1 mile, a Betazoid can automatically sense the presence of sentient life (unless said life form possesses the Telepathically Opaque trait). The nature of this sentient life can be discerned with an appropriate Knowledge check. The location of this sentient life cannot be discerned through this use of telepathy.

Once detected, a Betazoid can immediately attempt to read the target’s thoughts, making a special Sense Motive roll to acquire more specific information from this mind. This telepathic sense, which is only receptive in nature, is usually limited to within line of sight unless the Betazoid can pinpoint the target creature’s exact position (which can be up to one mile away).

Beyond simply sensing a presence, the Betazoid will usually sense something deeper, as determined by the Sense Motive roll. The base DC for this check varies: 5 for current emotional state; 10 for recent memories or unguarded thoughts; 15 for long-held memories or embarassing secrets; 20 for faded memories or dangerous secrets; 25 for unconscious memories or repressed traumas. This base DC is modified upwards by the target’s WILL save modifier (if actively attempting to mask thoughts). The Betazoid may retry this Sense Motive check as a free action each round as long as the target is within sensory range.

The information gleaned from the target’s mind provides a variety of circumstance bonuses depending on the situation [GM’s discretion]. For example, knowing a target’s emotional state provides a +4 circumstance bonus to any social interaction rolls made while that emotional state lasts. Likewise, knowing the location of the bomb placed by Vulcan terrorists provides +10 to Search rolls to find it in the Captain’s stateroom.

Extended example: Betty the Betazoid has Sense Motive +10 and attempts to read the thoughts of Valerie the NPC Vulcan. Valerie has WILL +7, so when Betty rolls d20+10=13, she can sense Valerie’s surface thoughts. The GM informs Betty that Valerie is currently thinking about how to prevent a core breech should the Dilithium reactors be exposed to the Fractal particles common to this star system. Since Betty is trying to befriend Valerie, the GM gives Betty a +4 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy to adjust Valerie’s reaction to her if Betty can help with this problem (whether helping Valerie talk out the problem, or suggesting a crewmate who can help Valerie adjust the shielding, or whatever Betty’s player can think of).

Tricks:

Betazoid Mindspeech: If all parties possess this trick, Betazoids can telepathically communicate with each other automatically. Without this trick, Betazoids must make Sense Motives rolls at DC 10 to read each other’s thoughts.

Imzadi: Betazoids can bond with another person with whom they can share thoughts and emotions via Mindspeech. For this trick to work, this person need not be Betazoid, cannot be Telepathically Opaque, but must be genuinely bonded emotionally with the Betazoid. Breaking the emotional bond often (but not always) breaks the telepathic rapport. [this needs some other small perk attached]


Low-level Betazoid Telepaths: treated essentially the same as illiterate characters

Zanthi Fever: Afflicted Betazoid telepathically reads nearby targets. If emotional state resembles their own, that emotional state is enhanced and exaggerated for a time (like Project Emotion).
 


Now I'm tempted to write up a character. My knowledge of d20 Modern/Future is limited however (I've never used those specific systems, but I've played with others like d20 SW and B5), and my Star Trek knowledge isn't that great outside of TNG and some of the movies.

I notice a variety of levels. Luckily my guy would be human, but what level would be appropriate for a guy who probably served for a few years in SF, had some experience piloting some mid-size or larger ships, then spent a couple years as a freighter pilot after washing out?
 

Maybe level 12. Most of us seem to be working at around the 10th level range, so for the pilot, 12th level wouldn't be too much of a stretch. I mean, I know I'd want a fairly experienced pilot driving my boat to coin a phrase.
 

the_myth said:
Actually, I think the bonus to Sense Motive is what keeps them honest with one another...If your mom always known when you're lying, why would you even try it? Now imagine if EVERYONE around you knew when you were lying...

I was thinking as they've likely never heard a lie amongst their own, they'd have virtually no development of this skill. The way desert-living creatures wouldnt get Swim bonuses. Sense Motive is already bonused by their empathic expansion of it, another +3 is excessive IMHO.

The ability is totally modelled of Troi...and Troi... (Deanna and Lwaxana respectively). Most of the other Betazoids appearing on the series were one-shots. Tam Elbrun was a super-telepath, with mind reading off the chart that caused psychological problems because he couldn't turn it off (which would be like like shutting an eyelid, which Betazoids usually can do). And Lon Suder was the telepathic equivalent of illiterate IMHO. Neither seem to be standard.

Very true, but a racial stat block should be based off the average Betazoid. Given Deanna is a professional detector and Tam is a super-freak, I'd think the average of the species lies between Suder and Lwaxana.

Honestly, there are very few instances where Betazoid telepathy has not been solely receptive in nature. In "Tin Man," it's hinted that Gomtuu contacted Tam, which enabled the 2 to communicate. And in "Fascination," Lwaxana's emotion projection is caused by Zanthi Fever, which may actually cause the usually receptive telepathy to become projective.

Agreed. Who said it was projective?

Here's a revision: [still unsure about range]

Betazoid Telepathy [Racial Feat]: Through the natural telepathic sense provided by their paracortex, Betazoids can detect sentient minds at a distance. At a range of 1 mile, a Betazoid can automatically sense the presence of sentient life (unless said life form possesses the Telepathically Opaque trait). The nature of this sentient life can be discerned with an appropriate Knowledge check. The location of this sentient life cannot be discerned through this use of telepathy.

As opposed to giving an Opaque trait, why not just list the races they cant scan? Maybe it's just Betazoids that cant scan them.

Once detected, a Betazoid can immediately attempt to read the target’s thoughts, making a special Sense Motive roll to acquire more specific information from this mind. This telepathic sense, which is only receptive in nature, is usually limited to within line of sight unless the Betazoid can pinpoint the target creature’s exact position (which can be up to one mile away).

Beyond simply sensing a presence, the Betazoid will usually sense something deeper, as determined by the Sense Motive roll. The base DC for this check varies: 5 for current emotional state; 10 for recent memories or unguarded thoughts; 15 for long-held memories or embarassing secrets; 20 for faded memories or dangerous secrets; 25 for unconscious memories or repressed traumas. This base DC is modified upwards by the target’s WILL save modifier (if actively attempting to mask thoughts). The Betazoid may retry this Sense Motive check as a free action each round as long as the target is within sensory range.

Ha, thanks for the honor of cut-pasting, but empathy/telepathy shouldnt cover memories just current thoughts and feelings. Also consider: "This DC is increased by the WILL save modifier of an actively resistant target." Reads easier. Sense Motive general doesnt allow retries and takes a minute, may want to address this.

The information gleaned from the target’s mind provides a variety of circumstance bonuses depending on the situation [GM’s discretion]. For example, knowing a target’s emotional state provides a +4 circumstance bonus to any social interaction rolls made while that emotional state lasts. Likewise, knowing the location of the bomb placed by Vulcan terrorists provides +10 to Search rolls to find it in the Captain’s stateroom.

Extended example: Betty the Betazoid has Sense Motive +10 and attempts to read the thoughts of Valerie the NPC Vulcan. Valerie has WILL +7, so when Betty rolls d20+10=13, she can sense Valerie’s surface thoughts. The GM informs Betty that Valerie is currently thinking about how to prevent a core breech should the Dilithium reactors be exposed to the Fractal particles common to this star system. Since Betty is trying to befriend Valerie, the GM gives Betty a +4 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy to adjust Valerie’s reaction to her if Betty can help with this problem (whether helping Valerie talk out the problem, or suggesting a crewmate who can help Valerie adjust the shielding, or whatever Betty’s player can think of).

I'm liking that. :D

Tricks:

Betazoid Mindspeech: If all parties possess this trick, Betazoids can telepathically communicate with each other automatically. Without this trick, Betazoids must make Sense Motives rolls at DC 10 to read each other’s thoughts.

Does this need a Trick? Cant we say Betazoids can just speak to each other telepathically, having to think slower for the half-breed children? ;)

Imzadi: Betazoids can bond with another person with whom they can share thoughts and emotions via Mindspeech. For this trick to work, this person need not be Betazoid, cannot be Telepathically Opaque, but must be genuinely bonded emotionally with the Betazoid. Breaking the emotional bond often (but not always) breaks the telepathic rapport. [this needs some other small perk attached]

How about a Betazoid can have only one Imzadi, they can mindspeak to them (provided the above), can take 10 to read them any time, and can sense them across a quadrant?


Low-level Betazoid Telepaths: treated essentially the same as illiterate characters

Zanthi Fever: Afflicted Betazoid telepathically reads nearby targets. If emotional state resembles their own, that emotional state is enhanced and exaggerated for a time (like Project Emotion).

What is a low level Betazoid telepath?

Zanthi fever needs the disease stats but that's a good approximation.
 

kirinke said:
Maybe level 12. Most of us seem to be working at around the 10th level range, so for the pilot, 12th level wouldn't be too much of a stretch. I mean, I know I'd want a fairly experienced pilot driving my boat to coin a phrase.

actually, didn't Jephkay say that the Captain would be 10th and most everyone else should be under that?
 

Diggus Rex said:
I was thinking as they've likely never heard a lie amongst their own, they'd have virtually no development of this skill. The way desert-living creatures wouldnt get Swim bonuses. Sense Motive is already bonused by their empathic expansion of it, another +3 is excessive IMHO.



Very true, but a racial stat block should be based off the average Betazoid. Given Deanna is a professional detector and Tam is a super-freak, I'd think the average of the species lies between Suder and Lwaxana.



As opposed to giving an Opaque trait, why not just list the races they cant scan? Maybe it's just Betazoids that cant scan them.

Actually, Jephkay seemed happy with Raven Crowking's species documented in another thread. I am working from that which has already been done. I reduced the Sense Motive from +10 to +3 because I think these subtle changes make a Species with LA +0 as opposed to LA +2.

oh, and I don't agree with the desert argument. Betazoids are a social species that have apparently had a lot of encounters with other species. Having swum in an ocean with a lot of fish, they know which ones hide their stingers...

Did I mix my metaphors? :eek:
 
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Diggus Rex said:
Ha, thanks for the honor of cut-pasting, but empathy/telepathy shouldnt cover memories just current thoughts and feelings. Also consider: "This DC is increased by the WILL save modifier of an actively resistant target." Reads easier. Sense Motive general doesnt allow retries and takes a minute, may want to address this.

Well, it's not a direct cut and paste..I did change it a little... :D


And herein would lie a long debate as to exactly how good a telepath Lwaxana is/can be. She has at times seemingly plucked some guarded secret from someone she walked past. Is this a mis-read on the old paracortex? Is she Bluffing to try and fluster everyone around her just to gain some social benefit? Or is her mind reading talent so "advanced" (as Deanna once described it) that she is really able to perform such a feat? Lots of skill ranks in the appropriate skill [a special use of Sense Motive in lieu of a specific "mind reading" skill] would/could/should mimic this...

What do you think if I raised the base DCs?

DC 5: sense life, sentience
DC 10: sense emotion
DC 15: sense recent memories or unguarded thoughts
DC 20: long-held memories or embarassing secrets
DC 25: faded memories or dangerous secrets
DC 30: unconscious memories or repressed traumas.



Does this need a Trick? Cant we say Betazoids can just speak to each other telepathically, having to think slower for the half-breed children? ;)

I chose to err on the side of caution since some Betazoids apparently aren't as telepathic as others....[see below]

How about a Betazoid can have only one Imzadi, they can mindspeak to them (provided the above), can take 10 to read them any time, and can sense them across a quadrant?

*yoink*

excellent...thanks! also lifted the revision concerning the WILL bonus to DC.

What is a low level Betazoid telepath?

Zanthi fever needs the disease stats but that's a good approximation.

Those will be expanded upon later. a "low level Betazoid Telepath" is one that lacks the typical telepathic abilities of the species.
 

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