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Trailblazer Teasers (collected)

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Helena Real

bit.ly/ato-qs
After all these class previews only TWO things bugg me...

Hi Wulf! (again)

Well, this long-time-lurker-because-of-Trailblazer-a-new-ENWorld-poster, after having read all these 10 pages of previews, has only TWO issues:

1. Paladin and Ranger. I could say that I'm now somehow accustomed to classes with all-LIVE-levels (ala Pathfinder) and in Trailblazer, these 2 classes have DEAD levels. What can you comment about that? It was because of balance with the other classes? Or something else?

2. Turn/Rebuke Undead. Once again, I really like Pathfinder's channel energy solution to this problem. It is for me, fluff (as well as) crunch wise. What are your design thoughts/ideas on that matter?

Besides that (once again), well done Wulf! I really like the new, I would say "integrative" concepts, such as Unified Spell Progression, Based-on-character Saving Throws and Combat Reactions. I can see that even with only these new concepts, 3.5 looks totally, refreshingly different to me.

Count me (at least) as a PDF buyer for Trailbazer.

Best regards,

Felipe.
 

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Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
1. Paladin and Ranger. I could say that I'm now somehow accustomed to classes with all-LIVE-levels (ala Pathfinder) and in Trailblazer, these 2 classes have DEAD levels. What can you comment about that? It was because of balance with the other classes? Or something else?

Yeah, we knew that would be an issue. We're still tossing around a few options-- but I don't want to add something there "just because."

That's really not good or clean design. You'll notice that almost everything we added follows a sensible progression.

Also keep in mind that a dead level is not necessarily a dead level if you're getting access to a new level of spells (which does happen in a couple of those "empty" spots.)

2. Turn/Rebuke Undead. Once again, I really like Pathfinder's channel energy solution to this problem. It is for me, fluff (as well as) crunch wise. What are your design thoughts/ideas on that matter?

Too extensive to post here and now.

Count me (at least) as a PDF buyer for Trailbazer.

It's appreciated.
 

Elodan

Adventurer
I'm only partially sure I understand what you're asking.

Can you throw me a table that shows how you'd extrapolate that all the way out?

At least I understand me :).

I am coming at this from an angle where the change to iterative attacks is what I consider to be one of the best things about Trailblazer. I think my question boils down to, why not use your new iterative attack rules for flurry? It just seems to keep things simple. I'm going to use your code to try and show what I mean (I only changed the Flurry column values)

Code:
Level	BAB		Centered	Attack	Full 		Flurry
			Bonus			Attack		of Blows
					<---	while centered	--->

1	+0		+1		+1	+1		-1/-1
2	+1		+1		+2	+2		+0/+0
3	+2		+1		+3	+3		+1/+1
4	+3		+1		+4	+4		+2/+2
5	+3		+2		+5	+5		+3/+3
6	+4		+2		+6	+6		+4/+4
7	+5		+2		+7	+7		+5/+5
8	+6 (+4/+4)	+2		+8	+6/+6		+7/+7
9	+6 (+4/+4)	+3		+9	+7/+7		+8/+8
10	+7 (+5/+5)	+3		+10	+8/+8		+9/+9
11	+8 (+6/+6)	+3		+11	+9/+9		+10/+10
12	+9 (+7/+7)	+3		+12	+10/+10		+11/+11
13	+9 (+7/+7)	+4		+13	+11/+11		+12/+12
14	+10 (+8/+8)	+4		+14	+12/+12		+13/+13
15	+11 (+10/+10)	+4		+15	+14/+14/+14	+15/+15
16	+12 (+11/+11)	+4		+16	+15/+15/+15	+16/+16
17	+12 (+11/+11)	+5		+17	+16/+16/+16	+17/+17
18	+13 (+12/+12)	+5		+18	+17/+17/+17	+18/+18
19	+14 (+13/+13)	+5		+19	+18/+18/+18	+19/+19
20	+15 (+14/+14)	+5		+20	+19/+19/+19	+20/+20
</pre>

I'm probably loosing something here by dropping the extra attacks.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
I am coming at this from an angle where the change to iterative attacks is what I consider to be one of the best things about Trailblazer. I think my question boils down to, why not use your new iterative attack rules for flurry? It just seems to keep things simple. I'm going to use your code to try and show what I mean (I only changed the Flurry column values)

Ok, you dropped the iterative attack penalty by 1 at 6 (-1/-1) and again at 11th? (0/0) . Basically moved the progression up.

Correct?

It looks reasonable.

However, I think you are somewhat falling for a common fallacy about my iterative attack fix, which is that it was designed to reduce the number of attacks. It wasn't designed for that. It's designed to keep the same bonus across all attacks. Reducing the number of attacks was secondary. The fix is designed to remove "down chain" attacks that have different attack calculations.

I don't care if the PCs have 4 or 5 or 6 attacks each if they can roll all the dice as one batch and sort the hits from the misses (looking just for target numbers) in about 10 seconds or less.

The reason I suspect your motives is because you jipped the monk the extra greater flurry strike at 11th. Oversight or intentional?

I'm probably loosing something here by dropping the extra attacks.

Well, hell yeah man, you're losing half your attacks. :lol:
 

Elodan

Adventurer
Ok, you dropped the iterative attack penalty by 1 at 6 (-1/-1) and again at 11th? (0/0) . Basically moved the progression up.

Correct?

It looks reasonable.

However, I think you are somewhat falling for a common fallacy about my iterative attack fix, which is that it was designed to reduce the number of attacks. It wasn't designed for that. It's designed to keep the same bonus across all attacks. Reducing the number of attacks was secondary. The fix is designed to remove "down chain" attacks that have different attack calculations.

I don't care if the PCs have 4 or 5 or 6 attacks each if they can roll all the dice as one batch and sort the hits from the misses (looking just for target numbers) in about 10 seconds or less.

The reason I suspect your motives is because you jipped the monk the extra greater flurry strike at 11th. Oversight or intentional?


Correct.

I fell for the fallacy. As you suspected, I got it in my head that all the fix was about adjusting the to-hit so that you only rolled two attacks but the damage would average out to something in the ballpark of what it would be under the old system. Having seen the light, I still think this is one of the best innovations of Trailblazer.

I guess omitting the extra greater flurry strike would be an intentional oversight.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
Correct.

I fell for the fallacy. As you suspected, I got it in my head that all the fix was about adjusting the to-hit so that you only rolled two attacks but the damage would average out to something in the ballpark of what it would be under the old system. Having seen the light, I still think this is one of the best innovations of Trailblazer.

I guess omitting the extra greater flurry strike would be an intentional oversight.

Well, "the fix was about adjusting the to-hit so that you only rolled X attacks but the damage would average out to something in the ballpark of what it would be under the old system."

And X happened to be 2.

But that doesn't mean you should feel constrained to remove sources of attacks > 2, for example flurry, frenzy, TWF, haste, etc.
 

Hi Wulf,

I just have to start with saying, like many others here, that I am really liking a lot of what I'm seeing here. I've read through this thread and a little bit of other info I could find, but there are a few things I had questions on, so apologies if I missed these being answered elsewhere.

How exactly are skill points and caps on ranks handled? Are you keeping the same caps as before (level +3 for class skills, 1/2 that for cross-class) but making all ranks, no matter what, cost 1 skill point per rank? Or is it something else?

I really like that saves are now based on character rather than class and I see that the good saves follow a nice progression (did I see right that the final bonus is something like 1/2 level + 2 + stat mod?). But what progression does the poor save follow? Does it still max out at 6 + stat mod? Am I right in understanding that I should only expect a character at higher levels to only be able to make a save based on their poor save by using an action point?

I really, really like the unified spellcasting progression. Although I would have like for the spells themselves to revamped to be more in line with the other changes you're making to the system, it seems like the costs to regain spell slots spent on different spells will help even that out. Which leads me to my next question. How are you handling those spells that easily trump skills like knock? Do these kinds of spells fall under the ritual type so they only come into play a few times per day without greater resource cost? Because while I love that if I play a wizard, I can expect to get my spells back several times per day, but if that included spells like knock and I were playing a rogue or something similar, I'd be pretty miffed about it.

Somewhat related to the above, I know you aren't really working on changing spells, except for some notable ones like dispel magic, would you mind telling us what other spells you might be modifying (like hopefully polymorph and similar spells)?

Again, let me reiterate that I'm really liking a lot of what I'm seeing here. While I do enjoy and like 4e, there are certain things about it (namely everything is a power) that still annoy me. What I'm seeing with TB is that you're addressing the things I had a problem with in 3.5 while incorporating the changes from 4th that I do really like. So, either way, I'm pretty darn sure I'll be picking up a copy of TB when it becomes available.

(sorry if I happened to ramble a bit)

EDIT: Also, can't wait to see the druid, it being my on again, off again favorite class.
 
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Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
How exactly are skill points and caps on ranks handled? Are you keeping the same caps as before (level +3 for class skills, 1/2 that for cross-class) but making all ranks, no matter what, cost 1 skill point per rank? Or is it something else?

Skill ranks are capped at your level. There are no cross-class skills. All skills cost 1 skill point per rank. You get a one-time, +3 bonus to any class skill when you put your first rank into it.

That, combined with the increase in skill points (no class receives fewer than 4 per level), combined with the "collapsing" of several skills into one means that your character will be able to be "broadly proficient."

At the same time, we have reduced the emphasis that skills play in combat so that skills have an almost negligible impact on CR.

I really like that saves are now based on character rather than class and I see that the good saves follow a nice progression (did I see right that the final bonus is something like 1/2 level + 2 + stat mod?). But what progression does the poor save follow? Does it still max out at 6 + stat mod? Am I right in understanding that I should only expect a character at higher levels to only be able to make a save based on their poor save by using an action point?

Good saves follow a 1/2 level progression and get a +2 bump to start. Poor saves follow a 1/3 progression and get no bump. This is exactly by RAW.

You're incorrect that characters can "only" make a Poor save by using an action point. They are more difficult to make, certainly, and you have action points if you need them. At very high CRs, the DCs may outpace the d20 roll, but high level characters have recourse to many more save boosters and "after the fact" panacea.

I really, really like the unified spellcasting progression. Although I would have like for the spells themselves to revamped to be more in line with the other changes you're making to the system, it seems like the costs to regain spell slots spent on different spells will help even that out. Which leads me to my next question. How are you handling those spells that easily trump skills like knock? Do these kinds of spells fall under the ritual type so they only come into play a few times per day without greater resource cost? Because while I love that if I play a wizard, I can expect to get my spells back several times per day, but if that included spells like knock and I were playing a rogue or something similar, I'd be pretty miffed about it.

I'm not sure that knock (and such) rise to the level of problem spell in the same was as, for example, polymorph. It's highly subjective-- some folks have a problem with magic trumping skill, some don't.

In the short term I recommend that you use a secondary spell resource that has the fixes you want, such as Pathfinder. I will probably get around to tackling all the spells at a later date.

What I'm seeing with TB is that you're addressing the things I had a problem with in 3.5 while incorporating the changes from 4th that I do really like.

As that was the design goal, that's high praise.
 

Wulf Ratbane

Adventurer
DRUID
Alignment: The druid must adhere to some aspect of neutrality. Her choices include neutral good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, or neutral evil.
Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The druid’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Persuasion (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points Per Level:4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, greatclub, longspear, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape (see below).

Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. (A druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. See the ironwood spell description) Druids are proficient with shields (except tower shields) but must use only wooden ones.

A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter.

Spells: A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. At 1st level, she gains access to all spells on the druid spell list. Her alignment may preclude her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells, below.

To ready or cast a druid spell, the druid must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a druid’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the druid’s Wisdom modifier. She receives bonus spell slots and ready spells per rest if she has a high Wisdom score. She does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A druid can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity’s (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Bonus Languages: A druid’s bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Druidic has its own alphabet.

Nature Sense (Ex): A druid gains a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks.

Speak with Animals (Sp): A druid can speak with animals at will, as the spell.

Wild Empathy (Ex): A druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Persuasion check made to improve the attitude of a person. When making a wild empathy Persuasion check, the druid gains a bonus equal to her druid level. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.

To use wild empathy, the druid and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
A druid can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check.

A druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Handle Animal checks towards friendly animals. See the Handle Animal skill for more information.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a druid may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Resist Nature’s Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like abilities of fey.

Wild Shape (Su): See below.

Venom Immunity (Ex): At 9th level, a druid gains immunity to all poisons.

A Thousand Faces (Su): At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in her normal form. This affects the druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

Timeless Body (Ex): After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.

Ex-Druids
A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).


Code:
	DRUID
LEVEL	BAB	BMB	CLASS FEATURES
1	+0	+1	Nature sense, speak with animals, wild empathy
2	+1	+2	Woodland stride
3	+2	+3	Trackless step
4	+3	+4	Resist nature’s lure
5	+3	+5	Wild shape 1/rest
6	+4	+6	Wild shape 2/rest
7	+5	+7	Wild shape 3/rest
8	+6	+8	Wild shape (Large)
9	+6	+9	Venom immunity
10	+7	+10	Wild shape 4/rest
11	+8	+11	Wild shape (Tiny)
12	+9	+12	Wild shape (plant)
13	+9	+13	A thousand faces
14	+10	+14	Wild shape 5/rest
15	+11	+15	Timeless body, wild shape (Huge)
16	+12	+16	Elemental shape 1/rest
17	+12	+17	
18	+13	+18	Wild shape 6/rest, elemental shape 2/rest
19	+14	+19	
20	+15	+20	Elemental shape 3/rest (Huge)

Wild Shape

At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal (and back again) once per rest. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here.

A druid begins the transformation by assuming a hybrid form. (A druid can always choose to skip this intermediate step and transform directly to animal form; see below.)

While in hybrid form, the druid takes on some physical characteristics of the animal (increased physical attributes, claws, etc.) but does not otherwise change size, type or subtype; she can use all of her possessions, can speak, cast spells, etc.

While in hybrid form, the druid gains all of the following:
• +2 natural armor
• low-light vision
• scent
• one natural attack mode (see table)​

In addition, the druid may choose any two of the following physical attributes (you may choose the same entry twice):
o +2 STR
o +2 DEX
o +2 CON
o +2 natural armor​

Regardless of the shape assumed, a druid in hybrid form may only make one natural attack in addition to her normal weapon attacks. This single extra attack is made at a -5 penalty to the druid’s normal iterative weapon attacks.

Assuming hybrid form is a free action. The druid can remain in hybrid form for up to 1 round per druid level. At the end of this time, the druid must either revert to human form, or complete her transformation to animal form. (Completing the transformation does not require an additional use of the wild shape ability.) A druid who wishes to skip the hybrid form and transform directly into animal form may do so.

If the druid completes the transformation into animal form, she gains the following benefits:
• +2 natural armor
• low-light vision
• scent
• one natural attack mode (see table)
• +10 movement (including any natural movement modes possessed by the animal; e.g. swim, fly, climb, etc.)
• +8 racial bonus to one of the following skills: Climb, Jump, Perception, Swim
In addition, the druid may choose any three of the following, which must include at least one choice from the Special Features/Attack Forms:

Physical Attributes (may choose the same entry twice)
o +2 STR
o +2 DEX
o +2 CON
o +2 natural armor
Special Features/Attack Forms (must choose at least one)
o constrict
o improved grab
o improved trip
o natural attack upgrade (see table)
o pounce
o powerful charge
o rake
o trample
o Plant Form (at 12th level)
o Elemental Form (at 16th level)


Code:
			[I]Natural Attack Mode	Natural Attack Upgrade[/I]
[B]Size		Base	Claw/Claw	Bite	Bite/Claw/Claw	Claw/Claw/Bite[/B]
Tiny		1d3	1d3/1d3		1d6	1d4/1d3/1d3	1d3/1d3/1d4
Small		1d4	1d4/1d4		1d8	1d6/1d3/1d3	1d4/1d4/1d6
Medium		1d6	1d6/1d6		2d6	1d8/1d6/1d6	1d6/1d6/1d8
Large		1d8	1d8/1d8		2d8	2d6/1d8/1d8	1d8/1d8/2d6
Huge		2d6	2d6/2d6		3d6	2d8/2d6/2d6	2d6/2d6/2d8
Assuming animal form is a standard action. The druid can remain in animal form for up to 1 hour per druid level, or until the druid resumes human form.

A druid in animal form cannot wear armor, clothes, or other items. Any worn or carried items fall into the druid’s space when she assumes animal form. For this reason, a druid typically assumes animal form where she can leave her belongings in a secure place or in the care of trusted allies.

While in animal form, the druid cannot speak, and cannot cast spells. She retains her ability to speak with animals.

At 8th level, the druid can assume the form of a Large animal. In addition to the wild shape effects already listed, increasing to this size has the following effects, which stack with all other effects granted:
• -1 size modifier to hit
• -1 size modifier to AC
• +3 natural armor
• +8 STR
• -2 DEX
• +4 CON​

At 11th level, the druid can assume the form of a Tiny animal. In addition to the wild shape effects already listed, changing to this size has the following effects, which stack with all other effects granted:
• +1 size modifier to hit
• +1 size modifier to AC
• +2 DEX
• -4 STR​

At 15th level, the druid can assume the form of a Huge animal. In addition to the wild shape effects already listed, changing to this size has the following effects:
• -2 size modifier to hit
• -2 size modifier to AC
• +5 natural armor
• +16 STR
• -4 DEX
• +8 CON​

The effects granted by changing to Huge size supercede (do not stack with) those granted by changing to Large size.

At 12th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

The druid must choose the Plant Form special feature from among her wild shape options. A druid in plant form can extrude limbs, thorns, and so forth, and chooses her attack routine from the table above. Plant Form grants the druid immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning. She must eat (by absorbing water and nutrients) and breathe (carbon dioxide), but does not sleep.

At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per rest. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. The druid must choose the Elemental Form special feature from among her wild shape options. Elemental Form grants the druid all of the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type.

At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per rest, and at 20th level she can do so three times per rest. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

[sblock]
Where’s Fluffy?
By now you’ve probably noticed that the druid’s animal companion is not listed among her class features.

If you take a look at the class balance breakdown (see The Spine), you’ll notice that the druid is already far ahead of any of the other classes– and that’s based on a valuation that puts the animal companion on par with a single feat or any other class ability. You could remove the “one feat” valuation of the animal companion (which is already obviously too low) from the druid and she would still be ahead of most of the classes, based on value of the spine alone.

In our estimation there are basically two kinds of players who will hate to see the animal companion go away. The first player looks at the animal companion as another of the myriad ways that the druid can completely kick ass in combat. To these players, we say: Come on. You kick enough ass. And with the addition of hybrid form, we’ve given the druid some intuitive tools to continue to shine in combat.

The other sort of player views the animal companion as– well, a companion. The bond between the druid and her companion is an important part of roleplaying and, for many, the key attraction to the class. For these players, we’ve given the druid the ability to speak with animals at will. Coupled with wild empathy, but subject to the needs of the DM and his campaign, every animal you meet is a potential roleplaying companion. Such creatures may or may not travel with the druid for a while, and may or may not come to her aid in combat, but like any other NPC, will be under the control of the DM. We feel this solution is the most sensitive to the needs of everybody concerned.
[/sblock]
 

TwoSix

"Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
Wow. I have to say that wild shape is pretty damn crunchy. I'll have to digest it a bit to figure out if I like it.

One question: Do you gain the benefits of changing into an increased size animal (like Large at 8th) in hybrid form, or only in full animal form?
 

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