Transform Troubles.

[Kemrain]

Having read through EoMr, I've discovered that there are some abilities that no spell list explicitly grants. If I want Fast Healing I can cast a Heal that restores 1d6 every round, but that isn't the same as actual Fast Healing. If I want Regenerate, I'm out of luck, even though I could regenerate lost parts with the Heal lists.

But what if I want the actual Fast Healing or Regeneration abilities? for these I have Transform! This is great, but, what if I only want the Regeneration ability, not to be a Troll? What if I want to have Fast Healing without Transform Undead? Which lists do I need to take to gain these abilities? How much MP should they cost? Transform would be a more fair list if it had guidelines like this, and wasn't left merely to creature type. I mean, should I be able to fly with Transform Humanoid? There are Winged Elves, so what's to keep me from tacking their wings on my human body? Shouldn't I need to take a different list to get abilities like this?

I'm just not sure what spell lists I should take to get certain effects, and I'm fairly confidentthat some Transform lists are simply much better than others in terms of what you can accomplish with them. (Transform Outsider seems a little overpowered, to me.)

- Kemrain the Transformed.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Transform.. and standardization

I agree that the Transform list is a bit odd... but its still pretty good. Perhaps we should vote for a TEOM: Transform suppliment that gets into the weeds on this subject

As to the abilities, I would stick to using Creature types and work a reduced CR if you are only taking some of the abilities. But leaving the Creature in for roleplaying fodder.

From a character standpoint, I dont know about 'Fast Healing', but I know that Trolls wounds heal up quick. So, being a Transformist Mage, I twiddle with a Transform: Troll spell until I get only the peices of Troll that I want... well, mostly only. Perhaps a weird greenish tint to the skin or an elongated nose..

The abilities should be limited to those the character would know about, either from a Knowledge skill or personal experience. This can tone down the Outsider list a bit, if you don't know what an Archon is, you can''t be one.

When I played a Transformist, I kept a roster of creature types I had 'learned', as well as specific disguises {I was part Rogue } Being a nice player, and not wanting to freak the DM who hadn't bothered to read TEOM before letting me play, I kept it pretty normal.
Even as such, my 'combat' forms were nasty. The best was a Large Monstrous Scorpian, which fit quite nicely into the largest Darkness spell I could do. Surprise round in that form was deadly indeed!

Anyway.. who votes for a detailed Transform booklet after we get EOM: Modern/skills?
.. we should probably start working on it here anyway... I have an EOM Druid that will soon be doing the WildShape thing.

 

[Kemrain]

I'd love to see Transform get it's own book. Transform and Summon, in my opinion, need the most work, because they rely on the CR system. Having modded the gamesystem, I don't have much of a reference for this anymore, and have to play everything by ear. I'd love to see guidelines that describe "X abilities should cost Y MP without Z drawbacks, and without they cost A MP."

I'm just not sure the creature types thing works without some guidelines. Especially since, if I only have Transform Outsider, I can give myself pretty much any ability in the book, because there are so many damn outsiders. If Regeneration could be gained by becoming a Troll or a Pit Fiend, but you could just start regenerating with Transform Giant, without becoming a Troll, Transform Giant would have some utility over Transform Outsider.. Each of the lists should have viability, and none should be a no-brainer decision.

- Kemrain the Outsider.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Draft thoughts..

Been thinking about this for a bit, and came up with the following concept:

Partial Transform, MP cost based on type.
Benefit, you gain the type of the creature {therefore its Traits} and can select, for additional MP, abilities common to that type of creature.
{some Types cost more than others due to versatility or power equivilent}
Your physical appearance alters noticably in reflection of the type chosen and the abilities selected.


Giant: Cost 1MP
STR Increase as Infuse:Earth chart
Enlarge, as table for getting bigger
Regenerate +1 mp per level of Regen

Dragon: Cost 3MP
Breath Weapon +2 MP per age category
{your size defines the area of the attack}
{example, 5MP to gain Black Dragons Breath Attack grants a medium caster a 60' line of acid that deals 2d4 points of damage that can be used once every 1d4 rounds. This is roughly equivilent to a 6MP Enduring Evoke:Acid }
Dragon Flight. +3 MP per 50' of Fly speed up to 200


etc...

This would have to be a major project in balancing the various aspects so that Transform does not trump the other lists. One of the advantages of using Transform is that you can avoid using multiple lists to gain similar effects.

{the MP costs above are literally off the top of my head.... }

 

[Verequus]

RW, this cries for the integration of Upper-Krust's CR-system: Most questions should be answered by this. And if not, then this can be remedied.

 

[astriemer]

Been thinking about this for a bit, and came up with the following concept:

Partial Transform, MP cost based on type.
Benefit, you gain the type of the creature {therefore its Traits} and can select, for additional MP, abilities common to that type of creature.
{some Types cost more than others due to versatility or power equivilent}
Your physical appearance alters noticably in reflection of the type chosen and the abilities selected.

{the MP costs above are literally off the top of my head.... }

As a general guideline, it should probably be at least 2 MP more expensive to do something using transform than the more appropriate list. So getting wings that give you perfect flight I would think would cost at least 8 MP (since you could do it with 6 MP using Move Air).

Actually, as I'm thinking about it, perhaps it should be 4 MP more expensive along the lines of the cost increase using Transform for creatures with the more powerful abiliites.

I agree that some guidelines, particularly for the common special abilites for creatures (from the Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities part of the SRD...ability score loss, alternate form, air subtype, fast healing, regeneration, etc.) would be helpful.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Upper Krust..

I have not seen his CR system, and didn't find it on the website in your sig.. any links for me?

 

[Verequus]

In its final variant v6, this system is supposed to be included in the Immortal's Handbook, which has been delayed over months (but it is coming). The last open version is v4, the v5 has some minor errors, which makes this document a request-only - but luckily, I can send it to you. What's your email address? Oh, the system is also in included Grim Tales, and BAG made it available with an excelsheet at RPGnow. In case, you want to pay for it.

Here is a useful link to all threads regarding the IH - if you want to read more of it.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Email for now..

If I like what I see, I am quite willing to support with $$

linte_draug at comcast dot net

Thanks!

 

[Verequus]

Oops, I forgot one file to include and with my bad connection I can't send it now! Please bear with me until I succeed to set this off.