Transmute Rock to Mud questions

[Pielorinho]

I'm looking at using this spell in a session soon, and my DM and I had some questions about it beforehand.

1) Am I right to think that if you cast it on the ground beneath creatures' feet, they get no save to avoid its effects?
2) Am I right to think that the -2 AC penalty take into account the cover they'd get from the mud? That is, if they're buried up to their chest, presumably they'd get 3/4 cover; the spell doesn't result in a net AC bonus, right?
3) It says that creatures that sink into the mud have their speed reduced to 5 feet. Later, it says that "Creatures large enough to walk on the bottom can wade through the area at a speed of 5 feet." If I make the mud go to a depth of 10', what happens to a medium-sized creature's speed?
4) If I cast it on the ceiling of a cavern, it does 8d6 damage (save for 1/2) to creatures directly beneath the ceiling and spreads out in a pool 5' deep. Do folks beneath the ceiling then suffer the reduced movement rates and AC penalties etc. that they'd suffer had I created the mud beneath their feet? What if they make their reflex save?

My DM is worried that this is an extremely powerful spell, a combination Web and fireball with a gigantic, shapeable AoE and no save for the movement-reducing effects. I'm thinking that druids specialize in entangling enemies (viz. Wall of Thorns, entangle, sleet storm, this spell, etc.) and elemental damage (produce flame, flamestrike, this spell, etc.); this simply acts as a way to combine the two.

Any help on this? Is the spell uber, in other folks' experience?

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Here's the spell's text, from the SRD:

Transmute Rock to Mud

Transmutation
Level: Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Up to two 10-ft. cubes/level (S)
Duration: Permanent (see text)
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud. If the spell is cast upon a boulder, for example, the boulder collapses into mud. Magical or enchanted stone is not affected by the spell. The depth of the mud created cannot exceed 10 feet. Creatures unable to levitate, fly, or otherwise free themselves from the mud sink until hip- or chest-deep, reducing their speed to 5 feet and giving them –2 penalties on attack rolls and AC. Brush thrown atop the mud can support creatures able to climb on top of it. Creatures large enough to walk on the bottom can wade through the area at a speed of 5 feet.

If transmute rock to mud is cast upon the ceiling of a cavern or tunnel, the mud falls to the floor and spreads out in a pool at a depth of 5 feet. For example, a 10th-level caster could convert twenty 10-foot cubes into mud. Pooling on the floor, this mud would cover an area of forty 10-foot squares to a depth of 5 feet. The falling mud and the ensuing cave-in deal 8d6 points of damage to anyone caught directly beneath the area, or half damage to those who succeed at Reflex saves.

Castles and large stone buildings are generally immune to the effects of the spell, since transmute rock to mud can’t affect worked stone and doesn’t reach deep enough to undermine such buildings’ foundations. However, small buildings or structures often rest upon foundations shallow enough to be damaged or even partially toppled by this spell.

The mud remains until a successful dispel magic or transmute mud to rock spell restores its substance—but not necessarily its form. Evaporation turns the mud to normal dirt over a period of days. The exact time depends on exposure to the sun, wind, and normal drainage.

Daniel

 

[Murrdox]

1) Am I right to think that if you cast it on the ground beneath creatures' feet, they get no save to avoid its effects?

Yeah, that'd be correct. Unless they can fly or levitate, they're stuck. I could see providing a saving throw for creatures on the edge of the AOE to dive out of the area to avoid being stuck, but that's it... and I really don't even think I'd allow for that... they'd just have to move out normally on their next turn.

2) Am I right to think that the -2 AC penalty take into account the cover they'd get from the mud? That is, if they're buried up to their chest, presumably they'd get 3/4 cover; the spell doesn't result in a net AC bonus, right?

Actually, I think you're right on the money here. It doesn't explicitly SAY in the text of the spell that you get cover from being buried in the mud, but obviously if a character is buried up to his chest in mud, he DOES have cover, since half his body is buried. I'd thus give characters up to their chest a 3/4 cover bonus to AC. Creatures buried to the hip would get a 1/2 cover bonus. So, yes, this COULD actually result in an increase of AC for buried creatures.

3) It says that creatures that sink into the mud have their speed reduced to 5 feet. Later, it says that "Creatures large enough to walk on the bottom can wade through the area at a speed of 5 feet." If I make the mud go to a depth of 10', what happens to a medium-sized creature's speed?

The spell seems to assume that the maximum ANY creature can sink into the mud is only chest level, no matter what its size. Also, any creature, no matter how buried, can move at least 5 feet through the mud.

4) If I cast it on the ceiling of a cavern, it does 8d6 damage (save for 1/2) to creatures directly beneath the ceiling and spreads out in a pool 5' deep. Do folks beneath the ceiling then suffer the reduced movement rates and AC penalties etc. that they'd suffer had I created the mud beneath their feet? What if they make their reflex save?

The reflex save is only for the damage. They automatically get reduced movement after the mud falls just like if you had made the mud beneath them.

Is this a powerful spell? Oh yes, that's why it's level 5. But it has very limited uses due to the terrain it can be cast on. If you can make creative use of this spell, then more power to you! The terrain requirements are pretty stiff... it's "rock" to mud afterall, not "dirt" to mud... so unless the terrain is particularly rocky or mountainous, this spell would have no effect. Caverns of unworked stone is where this spell would really shine.

My DM is worried that this is an extremely powerful spell, a combination Web and fireball with a gigantic, shapeable AoE and no save for the movement-reducing effects. I'm thinking that druids specialize in entangling enemies (viz. Wall of Thorns, entangle, sleet storm, this spell, etc.) and elemental damage (produce flame, flamestrike, this spell, etc.); this simply acts as a way to combine the two.

Any help on this? Is the spell uber, in other folks' experience?

Daniel [/B]

For a Druid adventuring in the Underdark, this is a really powerful spell to have at one's disposal. In the overworld... most ground is made of dirt, not rock. Even a foot or two of dirt on top of a stone bedrock would prevent the spell from working.

Of course, liberal use of the spell may result in the remaining rock of the cavern you are in becoming unstable... leading to possible cave-ins. The cover bonus to AC that trapped creatures get may somewhat offset their restricted movement... at least against weapons. Of course, they're all very vulnerable to fireballs and such once trapped...

 

[andargor]

Well, you can cast a Transmute Mud to Rock spell right after the opponents have sunk in.... A new meaning to "rock boots".

I wonder if a straight Dispel Magic would have the same effect?

Andargor

 

[kreynolds]

I wonder if a straight Dispel Magic would have the same effect?

From the spell descrip...

The mud remains until a successful dispel magic or transmute mud to rock spell restores its substance—but not necessarily its form.

...ugly.

 

[Pielorinho]

The rock to mud --> mud to rock combo is definitely nasty -- as it should be, considering that it uses up two fifth-level slots. I may give it a try, once I'm comfortable with how rock to mud works.

Murrdox, thanks for your thoughtful reply -- this is very useful. It also occurs to me that a creature with a speed of 5' can actually move 10 (or 20', if you're allowed to run, and I think you are) in a round. That's not nearly as bad as i was thinking at first.

I think I'd rule that you have a speed of 5' if you can stand up on the underlying surface; otherwise, you can move 5' as a full-round action. But I'm guessing my DM will disagree .

Daniel

 

[andargor]

Actually, the combo could use a 5th and a 3rd level slot. Dispel Magic would work automatically on your own spell.

Great for multiple bogeys incoming...

Nasty, nasty.

Andargor

 

[Pielorinho]

Actually, the combo could use a 5th and a 3rd level slot. Dispel Magic would work automatically on your own spell.
Andargor

Fifth and Fourth, actually -- dispel magic is a fourth-level spell for Druids. And if I understand how that very confusing spell works, Dispel Magic would only dispel the muddiness in a 20' radius, right? Given the spell's ridiculously cool AoE (2 10' cubes/level, shapeable), transmute mud to rock might be the better choice for dispelling it.

Daniel

 

[andargor]

Hmmm. Interesting point. It's 30' radius, BTW.

However, from the Dispel Magic description:

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the spell.

Hence, one could argue that you could target the spell.

Also, the quote by kreynolds above seems to indicate that the whole spell is dispelled, irrespective of area.

Looks like a DM call to me.

Andargor

 

[melkoriii]

Re: Re: Transmute Rock to Mud questions

Actually, I think you're right on the money here. It doesn't explicitly SAY in the text of the spell that you get cover from being buried in the mud, but obviously if a character is buried up to his chest in mud, he DOES have cover, since half his body is buried. I'd thus give characters up to their chest a 3/4 cover bonus to AC. Creatures buried to the hip would get a 1/2 cover bonus. So, yes, this COULD actually result in an increase of AC for buried creatures.

Actually.. From some of the articals on WotC site. Mud would not give cover.

One of the things they say to check to see if something gives cover is to ask: "Would this stop a bullet/arrow?"

Mub would not stop a arrow from hitting. You could use a spear and still hit the target even if they were totaly covered. (tho that would be a consealment thing)