Trap finding...

[Celtavian]

It seems pretty difficult to spot traps even when actively searching. Is this the case or am I missing something? DC 22 and 27 to find some low level traps for a rogue that doesn't much reason to have higher than a 14 wisdom. With the perception skill that seems to give a +7 base plus half level to find traps.

Lvl 4 trap
DC 22 +9 to find if actively searching. Roll 13 or better on dice.
DC 27 roll 18 or better to find a trigger plate.

Am I missing something? Are traps this hard to find?

 

[Kordeth]

Well, for one thing, rogues aren't the only ones doing the searching any more. Everybody can contribute to spotting traps.

 

[renau1g]

I agree with you Celtavian.... It's rather disconcerting that the rogue has to rely on the more perceptive members of the group...

Everyone can find them, but only rogue & ranger get perception, meaning the other characters need to roll 20's to have a chance.

Rogue: I'm walking along looking for traps, man it's good to be a rogue... "hey guys, everything's clear let's go"
Ranger: "There's a pressure plate in front of you... some rogue you are, don't worry the Warlock will disarm it for you. Why don't you go and wait in the shadows until we need you" *pats rogue on the head*

 

[Celtavian]

re

It is somewhat disturbing. Neither the rogue or the ranger have much need of wisdom. Most will focus on the more combat oriented stats. That means Perception will suffer because of it. The classes with the best chance of spotting traps are clerics and paladins, yet they do not get the Perception skill. Just seems an odd way to check for traps.

Is the party supposed to be constantly aiding another? Does anyone in the group really have that high a Perception skill? Has anyone much experience with trap finding? Does it become easier as you level?

 

[TK Lafours]

My math might not be so good but even if every person in your five person party needs a natural 20 to see the trap don't you have a 1 in 4 chance of seeing the trap? Add a +5 to just one of those characters and now you'll find the same trap half the time.

 

[Korror]

My math might not be so good but even if every person in your five person party needs a natural 20 to see the trap don't you have a 1 in 4 chance of seeing the trap? Add a +5 to just one of those characters and now you'll find the same trap half the time.

Actually it's ~23% chance in the first scenario and ~43% chance in the second which is closer to your guess than I expected it to be. You obviously are a good guesser.

 

[Korror]

double post

 

[renau1g]

Still not very good odds for a trap... maybe that's just me but that math doesn't seem right. If the character has a +5 and a DC 27 (as in the OP) he still requires a 20 on the roll, so it still is 23%.....and there's no 10' poles in the PHB... sacrilege!

 

[TK Lafours]

Okay. The DC 27 referred to in the OP is to spot the control panel for the trap. Merely to become suspicious that something is amiss the DC for the same trap is only 17.

Now, for the hardest DC at that level, 23% doesn't seem that bad at all. Especially considering that your Rogue isn't even a specialist trap-finder.

My real experience with traps is that they are as easy or hard to find as the DM is sadistic. If you found them all they wouldn't represent a challenge and if you didn't find any what's the point of looking for them? Somewhere between 23% and 60%+ percent to find traps of your level if you are actively looking doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

As far as the no 10' pole thing goes, there will always be creative ways to find traps without perception (unless your DM is sadistic, see above). Having your fighter throw Splug or the corpse of your last enemy down the hall can sometimes do the trick.

 

[Kordeth]

Also, remember that the function of traps in 4E have changed. Traps are no longer intended to be punishments for characters who don't approach dungeon crawling like an archaeological dig ("Oops, sorry, you forgot to search for traps on that door, have some deadly poison!"), they're Indiana Jones style setpieces that (ideally) should be used to create fun, exciting encounters. In 4E, we want traps to go off.