Traps activating on view

[schporto]

[RtTOEE SPOILERS]

















Are there any rules to determine when someone sees something? There's a trap (or a few) in RtToEE that says "Anyone who looks upon X must make a X save." How do you determine who has looked at X? Any suggestions?
The best I've had is a spot check and anybody over a DC sees it and must make a save. But this seems like its hurting people for doing something well.
-cpd

 

[Artoomis]

This is perhaps best played with roleplaying. Describe the room/hallway, whatever. Include something like, "there may be something in the far left coiner, but it is currently hidden in the shadows cast from your torchlight (or whatever). Someone (or perhaps serveral) is bound to talk about seraching, or looking around, or something. That's when you nail them.

The idea, I think, is to get them to understand that just looking at something can be deadly and for them to get really, really paranoid about EVERYTHING.

 

[Quidam]

Perhaps treat it like a gaze attack?

 

[starwed]

The idea, I think, is to get them to understand that just looking at something can be deadly and for them to get really, really paranoid about EVERYTHING.

This is generally a good way to make the game less fun. After a few minutes into a session in the Tomb of Horrors, more than half the game time was spent by my character making search and disable device checks, just in case.

 

[the Jester]

Spot checks and lighting conditions.

Seriously, give a vague description and see who looks closer.

 

[Artoomis]

This is generally a good way to make the game less fun. After a few minutes into a session in the Tomb of Horrors, more than half the game time was spent by my character making search and disable device checks, just in case.

I tend to agree. This IS the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, though.

Personally, I think the module should have instructions for how to deterimnne if anyone is looking at some deadly thing view-activated.

I don't think the gaze attack rules are particularly helpful, here.

Overall, I just think that the whole activated by view thing is bad because of the lack of any game mechanic for this.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I don't know, Gaze attacks might be the right way to do this....setting up a slightly expanded option with them.

The Symbol spell details looking at the rune and reading the rune as two seperate things, altho the text of the spell states “...'reading'” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning."... which does not neccessarily mean spending an action.

So, using Gaze attack as the rule to work with:
Upon entering the range of a trap triggered by either sight or reading, the character is subject to a Gaze attack and must succeed at a Will Save DC 15 + the traps CR or trigger the trap. {spell trap CRs are generally based on 1 + spell level}
If the trap is triggered by reading it, a character must succeed at a Will Save DC 10 + traps CR or trigger it.
A character actively searching the location of the trap or reading a text containing a trap suffers a -10 penalty to this save.

Sample: Symbol of Sleep, CR 6 {Spell level 5 + 1} has a Gaze DC 21.
My 3rd level Half-Orc Druid, with a Will Save of 6, will almost certainly trigger this trap.... it is a CR +3 encounter after all.
By the time he is 6th level his save will be up to 8. He will have almost a 50% chance of not triggering the trap....about right for a CR equivilent.

End result: No more 'do you look at it' back and forths. Since a character knows when they are subject to a save, they will get to do the search thing where the trap is instead of creeping along while looking through mirrors.
RBDM's wont tell them what kind of save it is, so the character may well search the area and trigger the trap anyway.

Symbols lose a bit of power as the character now has to fail *two* saves in order to be affected
RBDM's can still get around this by setting symbols into areas that need to be entered and searched

Also, you have a means to search the area without triggering it that is already documented in the RAW... use of mirrors. There are also clear rules on when the PC decides to 'avert thier eyes' from the big glyph thing on the wall while walking past

{at least once when I say 'RBDM' I really mean 'intelligent and cunning NPC wizard' }


Finally, this also means that the odds of the big dumb fighter type walking up to a symbol and saying 'whats this?' is pretty high

 

[frankthedm]

The best I've had is a spot check and anybody over a DC sees it and must make a save. But this seems like its hurting people for doing something well.
-cpd

So? Sometimes it is better NOT to notice some things! This happens more in the horror genre than fantasy, but the person who fails to see the hiding medusa is the lucky one. Those are the breaks.

A spot check is the PERFECT mechanic for this.

Overall, I just think that the whole activated by view thing is bad because of the lack of any game mechanic for this.

Spot checks are this mechanic. Players turn to their spot check to notice theats to thier lives. In this situation, the noticing is what makes it the threat. An uberkewl character who notices everything around him will sometimes see things he wished he didn't. Sometimes Ignorance is bliss, even in D&D.

 

[Jack Simth]

So? Sometimes it is better NOT to notice some things! This happens more in the horror genre than fantasy, but the person who fails to see the hiding medusa is the lucky one. Those are the breaks.

A spot check is the PERFECT mechanic for this.Spot checks are this mechanic. Players turn to their spot check to notice theats to thier lives. In this situation, the noticing is what makes it the threat. An uberkewl character who notices everything around him will sometimes see things he wished he didn't. Sometimes Ignorance is bliss, even in D&D.

Ah, like the Greater Shadow Conjouration Wall of Stone floor. With a 40% unaffected chance for those who don't believe in it for the non-damaging effect of supporting weight.

 

[frankthedm]

Ah, like the Greater Shadow Conjouration Wall of Stone floor. With a 40% unaffected chance for those who don't believe in it for the non-damaging effect of supporting weight.

The ins and outs of the Shadow Conjouration spells making load bearing structures are the domains of Wotc's writers, the rules that allow for the willful failure of saves, loony toons and the ACME coperation.