D&D General Travel In Medieval Europe

[doctorbadwolf]

As others have posted, 8 kph (5 mph) is a fair clip - for most people it would be jogging rather than walking. 11 kph (7 mph) is getting closer to a run. Keeping up a walking pace of 5 kph (3 mph) seems more realistic.

Also, as an aside, people can jog for a long time without undue strain, if they're conditioned to full days of work, and properly fed, and used to walking and jogging most places they go.

Someone in a hurry, lightly laden, can probably travel about twice as far in a day as someone that just needs to travel as quickly as the average traveler in order to make it to the next village with a place to stay for the night.

 

[briggart]

Egypt? Massively connected, to Europe, Africa and Asia. Heard of the Great Library of Alexandria? Where do you think Alexander came from?

Uh? Bit of nitpicking, but Alexander came from Northern Greece. The city was named after him, not the other way round.

EDIT: I probably misunderstood the post, as pointed out by @cbwjm below

 

[Ancalagon]

That figure feels about 50% too ambitious.

Being able to walk that speed for an hour or two is one thing, 5-6 hours a day for several days… I don’t think so. That would be considered power walking and is described as the upper limit of the natural range for walking gait. Certainly not comfortably sustainable for normal people.

Power walking - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I concur. For long duration of walking, anything above 5 km/h seems very optimistic, especially over several days.

 

[cbwjm]

Uh? Bit of nitpicking, but Alexander came from Northern Greece. The city was named after him, not the other way round.

I think that's what he's getting at. How connected Egypt (and every Mediterranean nation) was in the ancient and classical world, to the point where a city in Egypt (+ a couple dozen elsewhere) was named after a man from Europe.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, let's see you get your donkey to jog for 8 hours.

But, really? Now we're saying that the Sword Coast is so pacified that a lone traveler could walk from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate regularly?

Is that what's seriously being suggested here? PC's must be the absolutely most unlucky people in the world.

Oh, and apparently the church of Waukeen can employ thousands of workers for decades (what it takes to build a road that would go from Paris to Athens or Toronto to Miami) and then maintain that road. Despite there being absolutely no mention of it anywhere in any of the source material. What there IS mention of in the source material is how many freaking monsters, hostile humanoids and various other threats there are to any traveler on the Trade Way. Again, there was a DRAGON living a couple of miles from Phandelin.

But, apparently, there are no actual threats on the Forgotten Realms or the Sword Coast. It's as safe as 15th century Europe.

Yeah, Theme Park is the right description.

 

[TheSword]

3 to 4 mph depends mostly on height/length of stride. I’m just shy of 6ft and I have walked 4mph for around an hour on a treadmill many times. That’s how I came back from the edge of the worst obesity I’ve ever experienced. Well, that and the standing bike, which I’m not sure the speed of because I just put it on the “variable terrain” setting and then watched some DC CW show episode. Either way, I did the walking hour at least once a week for several months. I also walked my dog at around 3.5mph average (the dog gets distracted) regularly for the first year and half we had him, because we are in a small apartment and he had too much energy to not do so.

Perhaps our definitions of “comfortably” are different. For me, it just means it isn’t painful and doesn’t leave me wrecked after an hour or so. If I can do it for even half a workday, or 4ish hours, without significant pain (sometimes just being conscious hurts) or being too depleted to do it again after a short break, then it’s comfortable.

Others seem to use the term to mean “without any particular extra effort”. In which case, sure, 3mph, give or take a bit for length of stride and general energy and fitness.

If I’m pushing myself, I could do 5mph without pain for quite a while, as long as I had food and water before, and snacks during, when I was younger. If “comfortably” and “pushing yourself” are incompatible by your definition, then feel free to translate that accordingly I guess, I’m not going to try to get you to change your definition of a word.

I used to often walked 6-7 miles to hang out with my friends when I was younger, since I didn’t get a car until 25. It would take about 2 hours sometimes 2 1/2, which includes time spent waiting for lights, slowing down bc I got a phone call, etc. My average speed was around 4mph, in decent weather, but that’s average, meaning I walked faster than that for a good chunk of the time.

The key point is you aren’t walking the average speed the whole time. You’re walking slower at times and faster at other times.

I definitely know people who can walk faster than I can, though most of them wear out faster as well.

Walking is awesome, and congrats on losing the weight.

I don’t doubt you can walk 6-7 miles at 4-5 mph. The difficulty would be doing that four times in one day with only a 30 minute break in between. Then waking up the next morning and doing it again and again and again.

There is also a big difference between a 7 mile walk and a 14 mile walk, or a 21 mile walk and it isn’t simply double or triple the effort. The impact of the distance is not linear. It increases as soreness and fatigue sets in. I was lucky (unlucky) enough to do four days hard walking 17-20 miles per day as part of an expedition when I was younger and even then when I was pretty fit it was exhausting. There was no way I was doing anything past the first two hours at more than 3 1/2 miles per hour.

 

[pemerton]

It's as safe as 15th century Europe.

In The Leviathan, Hobbes talks about how much trust we (ie humans, living in society), can have in our fellows. He mentions that everyone locks their house when they leave it - something that contemporary Australian can easily relate to - and that everyone arms themselves when travelling. Which is not something relatable in contemporary Australia.

I think the estimate for murders in early modern London or Paris - with populations perhaps in the low hundred thousands - was one a night. That's more murders per year than in contemporary Australia, with a population of 25 million (ie approx 100 times bigger).

My overall point being as safe as 15th century Europe doesn't entail a super-high degree of safety! Before we even get to dragons, trolls etc.

 

[Ixal]

Heh, let's see you get your donkey to jog for 8 hours.

But, really? Now we're saying that the Sword Coast is so pacified that a lone traveler could walk from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate regularly?

Is that what's seriously being suggested here? PC's must be the absolutely most unlucky people in the world.

Oh, and apparently the church of Waukeen can employ thousands of workers for decades (what it takes to build a road that would go from Paris to Athens or Toronto to Miami) and then maintain that road. Despite there being absolutely no mention of it anywhere in any of the source material. What there IS mention of in the source material is how many freaking monsters, hostile humanoids and various other threats there are to any traveler on the Trade Way. Again, there was a DRAGON living a couple of miles from Phandelin.

But, apparently, there are no actual threats on the Forgotten Realms or the Sword Coast. It's as safe as 15th century Europe.

Yeah, Theme Park is the right description.

The Romans build 50.000 miles of (paved) roads.
The silk road, although not paved but still being an established road, was 4000 miles long. And several pilgrim paths were as long as the trade way is supposed to be.

You know whats also in the source books? Traders. Lots and lots of traders from singular NPCs, caravans (and cultists disguising as caravans) and entire nations build on trade.
And you know what traders do? They travel extensively both near and far. If travel would be very dangerous all of this would not exist.
And as you were told several time, a world like the FR with all its post medieval technology and its population density requires trade.

 

[Faolyn]

Heh, let's see you get your donkey to jog for 8 hours.

But, really? Now we're saying that the Sword Coast is so pacified that a lone traveler could walk from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate regularly?

I think you're vastly misinterpreting what people have been saying.

Nobody is saying that the roads are going to be completely safe. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of travel is done in groups or in armed caravans. But the fact that there is actually a road called the Trade Way proves that there is travel.

Plus, considering the way D&D works, anyone who decided to travel even relatively short distances and didn't die right away could easily earn a few levels with doing so--even if they're in a group and have to split XP--so by the time someone decides to actually make that long trek alone, they might be somewhere in the 3rd-to-5th level.

Just in case you decide to reply with "And now you're saying everyone is high level in the Realms!" or "it's not supported by the books!" well... there's plenty of precedent, since 3x had those NPC classes like commoner and noble, and in 5e, they could have the Sidekick classes. So why not? Because the NPC statblocks don't reflect that? Well, change 'em! Say the average peasant has 8 hp, two stats at 12, and is proficient in one of Dex, Con, or Wis saves. No biggie there.

Is that what's seriously being suggested here? PC's must be the absolutely most unlucky people in the world.

Probably, since I doubt that the DM is rolling for random encounters for every single NPC in the world.

Oh, and apparently the church of Waukeen can employ thousands of workers for decades (what it takes to build a road that would go from Paris to Athens or Toronto to Miami) and then maintain that road. Despite there being absolutely no mention of it anywhere in any of the source material. What there IS mention of in the source material is how many freaking monsters, hostile humanoids and various other threats there are to any traveler on the Trade Way. Again, there was a DRAGON living a couple of miles from Phandelin.

FIrst, how old is the world, and how old is the church? They could very well have built that road centuries ago and have been maintaining it ever since. And they very likely don't do it alone. There are plenty of gods and churches in the Realms who would find maintaining roads and protecting travelers to be important, and probably many more kingdoms/baronies/counties/etc. who would have a vested interest in doing so. Do you really think that anyone is saying that one church is doing everything on its own?

(And yes, read up on Waukeen. Her clerics often work as bodyguards specifically for traveling merchants.)

I doubt that dragon actually kills every single person who dares to leave Phandelin just for giggles. And remember what I said about people leaving offerings for the forest spirits? What if it's the same with the dragon, and they toss a coin in a ravine or something, and the dragon accepts that as enough of a bribe to not go out of its way to kill the travelers. Unless it was already planning on doing so because it was hungry.

 

[Hussar]

And as you were told several time, a world like the FR with all its post medieval technology and its population density requires trade.

So, yes, tautology for the win.