Triple HP at 1st level?

[The Ubbergeek]

Mob rule will surely be made....

 

[DamnedChoir]

Firstly, Toughness gives 3 HP +1 for every level you have attained and +1 for each additional level. This means Toughness gives a 1st level char 4 HP.

Since chars at level 1 have 4x the skill points in 3rd ed, it's not unreasonable to think they might have 4x the HP.

And perhaps they get less HP per level, since there's no hit die, so a rogue might begin with (4+Con)x4, while a fighter might start with (8+Con)x4.

It'd make sense, and Saga's x3 HD, but not x3 Con bonus made no sense, and bothered me to no end. Then again, there's alot in Saga that I think has a great idea behind it, but has a really bad implementation.

 

[mmadsen]

As I said on the other thread, I think we're conflating a number of separate ideas here.

I think first-level characters should be fragile, but I don't necessarily think first-level player characters should be fragile. Player characters have fate (plot-protection) on their side.

Also, I think first-level characters should merely be competent, not awesome, but I don't necessarily think starting player characters should be first-level characters. If a character's supposed to be a kick-ass hero, he shouldn't be first-level.

If a stormtrooper is supposed to be an elite soldier, he should be higher level than typical conscripts. Similarly, if an Uruk-hai is supposed to be elite, he should be higher level than a typical orc or goblin.

If our PCs are supposed to be as good as those elite soldiers, they should be the same level. If our PCs are supposed to be nowhere near as good as those elite soldiers -- like Merry, Pippin, etc. versus the Uruk-hai -- then they should be lower level.

If we want lesser warriors to keep up with superior warriors, because we want them to have fate (or plot-protection) on their side, then we should offer them extra hit points, or fate points, or whatever.

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

Doesn't this necessarily preclude the idea that somebody starts out as a lackey and through fate and circumstance turns into something great? That 60 year old blacksmit that picks up his sword and becomes famous, for example?

Pinotage

That blacksmith had always been a hero, he just never knew it until forced into it by circumstances.

Ordinary people that survive multiple gunshots, failed parachutes or being lost in the desert? They're just PCs that never took up adventuring yet.

 

[Pinotage]

That blacksmith had always been a hero, he just never knew it until forced into it by circumstances.

Ordinary people that survive multiple gunshots, failed parachutes or being lost in the desert? They're just PCs that never took up adventuring yet.

Could be. I'm starting to give up trying to see logical consistency within the 4e mechanical system.

Pinotage

 

[beholdsa]

Low-level PCs should have few hit points. A sword blow to the head should kill the untrained.

 

[infax]

Low-level PCs should have few hit points. A sword blow to the head should kill the untrained.

Funny, my complaint has always been that a sword blow to the head (or a fall from over 60ft) should kill the untrained as well as the very well trained, veteran soldier. YMMV though.

 

[bgaesop]

in Saga, 1st-level characters get hit points equal to triple the max value of their starting hit die (d10 HD = 30 hp) plus their Con bonus.

So wait, do they get triple their con bonus or just their con bonus? So a fighter with a 14 con would get 32 or 36 hit points at level one?

There is actually another piece of evidence for triple HP at level 1, and that is the fact they revealed the mechanics for the toughness feat, and it gives 3 HP at lvl 1, and 1 at every additional level.

3 plus 1 per level means 4 at level one.

I'm concerned about the elimination of low level play in the new edition. My players and I like low levels. They're simple and fun.

I love low level play, and this is precisely why I like this development. It makes low level play not necessarily mean death is super-common. It allows the DM to control it more without fudging rolls.

Funny, my complaint has always been that a sword blow to the head (or a fall from over 60ft) should kill the untrained as well as the very well trained, veteran soldier. YMMV though.

A blow to the head will kill any level X character, it's just that their training and toughness allows them to deflect the blows and get hit in places other than the head for longer, meaning you have to whittle down their hit points before you get in that one lucky shot that cleaves their head in twain.

 

[Nikosandros]

So wait, do they get triple their con bonus or just their con bonus? So a fighter with a 14 con would get 32 or 36 hit points at level one?

They just get the con bonus once.

 

[bgaesop]

They just get the con bonus once.

That's kind of lame. I liked making a character for low level games with a high Con because it increased my survivability, it's a shame that that doesn't come into play as much.