Trips?

[hong]

*shrug* Whatever.

Oh no you don't. Avaunt!

 

[dcollins]

By default, a weapon has a 5-foot reach. That's stated elsewhere. Similarly, by default a weapon can be readied against charge attacks, and does normal damage.

Technically, there is only a rule that says "you" generally have 5-ft. reach, not that weapons do. Even more to the point, there is certainly no rule that prohibits you from getting double damage from readying any weapon against a charge.

In fact, I'll assert that you cannot find any statement in any weapon description -- other than this one you're identifying -- which holds true for all weapons in general and by default.

I dispute that being able to be used in a trip attack qualifies as a "special quality".

Your dispute is not backed up by the evidence.

 

[Coredump]

While a large part of my brain is screaming *Don't get involved!!!* I am going to anyway...

I *think* this is a matter of semantics and abstraction.

There is a difference between using a weapon for tripping someone, and weilding the weapon while tripping someone. At least in the rules.

There is no reason to believe that you cannon trip someone while weilding a dagger/staff/mace/whatever. The attack, however, is abstracted and therefore it doesn' matter how you describe it. You want to *say* you sweep their feet with a staff, or bend down and pull there foot, or hook their arm with your arm, etc.... it doesn't matter, that is all just color. The rule mechanics are the same, you both role, the 'winner' gets to trip the other one.
Similarly, often when I attack, I describe it. I may stab him, or use a moulinet (sp?) or maybe a wrap shot to the back of his head. But that is all abstracted and acts as color only. It still does D8 damage, and does nothing differently than if I just said "I attack".

Now, this is contrasted with using a flail/chain/etc. Those allow for specific mechanic changes. Those allow you to state that you are using those specifically to trip by wrapping a limb. Thus they allow you to drop them if you want.

There is only a problem if you try and mix the two. If you are using a dagger/staff/etc. and add color "I try and sweep their feet with the staff" and try and get a mechanical advantage "Oops, well I drop the staff to avoid being tripped"
Just like I can't get a mechanics advantage by the added color of how I am attacking. "well I thrust, so it should do more damage"


So, in a way, you are both right. Yes, you can 'use' any weapon for making a trip. If that is how you wish to describe it, but you get no mechanics advantage for it. To make the roleplaying consistent, just think of reasons why using those weapons don't allow you to drop them to avoid a counter-trip. (I can think of some reasons, I am sure you can also)

.

 

[hong]

In fact, I'll assert that you cannot find any statement in any weapon description -- other than this one you're identifying -- which holds true for all weapons in general and by default.

"I can use this weapon to hit someone for damage."

How's that?

Your dispute is not backed up by the evidence.

My dispute is not contradicted by the evidence.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You want to *say* you sweep their feet with a staff, or bend down and pull there foot, or hook their arm with your arm, etc.... it doesn't matter, that is all just color.

So, in a way, you are both right. Yes, you can 'use' any weapon for making a trip. If that is how you wish to describe it, but you get no mechanics advantage for it.

Second that

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

"I can use this weapon to hit someone for damage."

How's that?

Sap, whip...?

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Sap, whip...?

Pick one (or both) of the following:

1) those are specifically described as dealing subdual damage;

2) subdual damage is still damage.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Sounds to me like Coredump, in just a few paragraphs, has accurately described the trip mechanic much better than what has taken you two 20 posts to argue.

I must admit, however, that you two are always entertaining, so please keep it up for another 20+ posts!

TLG

 

[hong]

There is no reason to believe that you cannon trip someone while weilding a dagger/staff/mace/whatever. The attack, however, is abstracted and therefore it doesn' matter how you describe it. You want to *say* you sweep their feet with a staff, or bend down and pull there foot, or hook their arm with your arm, etc.... it doesn't matter, that is all just color. The rule mechanics are the same, you both role, the 'winner' gets to trip the other one.

Exactly. And therefore, if I have Weapon Focus with a staff, I get +1 on my attack roll with tripping with it, and don't provoke an AoO.

 

[Caliban]

Exactly. And therefore, if I have Weapon Focus with a staff, I get +1 on my attack roll with tripping with it, and don't provoke an AoO.

Tripping someone doesn't provoke an AoO, whether you do it unarmed or armed.