D&D General "True Neutral": Bunk or Hogwash

[I'm A Banana]

Easydamus has the definition I like:

A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil-after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.

Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, without prejudice or compulsion.

Neutral can be a dangerous alignment when it represents apathy, indifference, and a lack of conviction.

The idea is that Good (as a cosmic force) is as unnatural and unbalanced as any other alignment. Yeah, a Neutral character would do some great evil if it meant preserving the cosmic balance. The "middle way" is the only way actually compatible with life and existence and the world - it requires a balance of forces. Too far in any direction, and you end up sacrificing something, even if it's only an enemy to fight or a diversity of thought.

 

[Professor Murder]

Justification as in the best way to examine an NPC’s alignment? Or justification for a Good-Evil axis?

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I am inclined to view alignment as a descriptive aid.
Since it’s closest to hand, you get a snippet from the gold box:
View attachment 429423
In d20 Modern, a character could have THREE “allegiances” with moral and ethical alignment among the options.

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Once things move into the strongly aligned outer planes, I think the “fundamental forces” idea has a stronger hold. The “Great Wheel” cosmology leans into this.

Sorry. This is topic drift. I'm not arguing over if the system has merit. That's an individual opinion of what works for the games you want to run or play in. I am saying that Mordenkeinan isn't "True Neutral." He's Neutral Evil. Anyone who is Militant Neutral in D&D is.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

The Lady of Pain isn't a human being so moral contsructs around their behavior are vague. There is no indication their motives are "Uphold balance between alignments." It is "By any means possible, avoid disruptions to Sigil." I would argue The Lady is LN anyway.

Ah, I misunderstood and interpreted NPC in a more expansive sense.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

Sorry. This is topic drift. I'm not arguing over if the system has merit. That's an individual opinion of what works for the games you want to run or play in. I am saying that Mordenkeinan isn't "True Neutral." He's Neutral Evil. Anyone who is Militant Neutral in D&D is.

Apologies, I misunderstood.

 

[Deset Gled]

True Neutral is the alignment of nature. Nature itself, of course, is neither good nor evil, and and is both chaotic and ordered. Protecting life so it can eat other life. Making sure nothing interferes with the natural order which is also wild and free.

True Neutral is kind of druid that cares for the forest; protecting it's inhabitants while watching them murder and eat each other, helping it grow in spring and letting it die every winter. True neutral is the personified spirits of Summer, Winter, Fall, and Spring; bringing new life to earth while killing the foliage that thrived last season. It's the alignment of the god Helios, driving the sun across the sky each day without care for what happens to those under the sun, feeding both the order of time and the chaos of weather.

Of course, we don't see this in media very much. Because there's going to be an Aesop about respecting earth or fighting pollution. The True Neutral version of Captain Planet just kills a bunch of folks when he needs to and doesn't bat an eye.

 

[Scribe]

When the limitations on liberty are not founded in justice.

So, we can then go down the rabbit hole, who defines what is just? Should people be protected from themselves and bad habits that are detrimental to their lives?

 

[sevenbastard]

True Netural is only found in a Automatic car. In a manual transmission you are just not in gear or have engaged the clutch.

 

[Charlaquin]

It’s all nonsense. Define “true neutral” in whatever way makes sense to you for your games and there shouldn’t be any problem.

 

[Koloth]

A jest I assumed. Your first example is Chaotic Evil.

I got the feeling that the whole topic is a jest.
That said, I disagree on the CE idea. Otherwise, most parties convert to CE the moment they enter the dungeon and start killing everything and keeping the loot. If you kill everything, good, evil, neutral, other and also chaotic and lawful, you are being rather neutral about the world balance.

IMO, the whole alignment thing is rather bogus. Do the old school Drow consider themselves Evil because they embrace slavery and living sacrifice? From the Drow perspective, it is those pesky interfering surface Humans that are the true Evil. The Drow are a force for Good and spreading the word of Lolth is spreading the greater good.

 

[Professor Murder]

So, we can then go down the rabbit hole, who defines what is just? Should people be protected from themselves and bad habits that are detrimental to their lives?

Again, drifting into trying to apply a game system to real life which is a fools errand.