True Seeing vs Mindblank + Polymorph

[rushlight]

So, let's say you're a dragon, and you've decided to trick some bothersome do-gooders. Your plan is to polymorph into a harmless dwarf and cast Mindblank on yourself to keep out prying spells that might uncover your ruse.

Then along comes the adventurers - and one of them has True Sight! Does the character with True Sight see that the poor dwarf is really a dragon?

The Mindblank spell says that it protects against "information gathering by divination spells or effects" - but the very first line says "The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts."

Does that mean that the fact that a creature is polymorphed has nothing to do with it's "emotions or thoughts" - thus the True Sight reveals the dragon? Or does the protection to divinations protect from /all/ divinations, no matter what?

Thanks!

 

[Devin Firebrand]

So, let's say you're a dragon, and you've decided to trick some bothersome do-gooders. Your plan is to polymorph into a harmless dwarf and cast Mindblank on yourself to keep out prying spells that might uncover your ruse.

Then along comes the adventurers - and one of them has True Sight! Does the character with True Sight see that the poor dwarf is really a dragon?

The Mindblank spell says that it protects against "information gathering by divination spells or effects" - but the very first line says "The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts."

Does that mean that the fact that a creature is polymorphed has nothing to do with it's "emotions or thoughts" - thus the True Sight reveals the dragon? Or does the protection to divinations protect from /all/ divinations, no matter what?

Thanks!

IANARL but I would think that true sight wouldn't see through a polymorph, since the polymorph physically changes the creature it's cast on... there's nothing to see through. The Mind Blank would protect against the creatures thoughts/emotions giving away the fact that it's been polymorphed but again I don't see how True Sight would interact with Mind Blank at all. Seems like the trick would work to me.

 

[Artoomis]

IANARL but I would think that true sight wouldn't see through a polymorph, since the polymorph physically changes the creature it's cast on... there's nothing to see through. The Mind Blank would protect against the creatures thoughts/emotions giving away the fact that it's been polymorphed but again I don't see how True Sight would interact with Mind Blank at all. Seems like the trick would work to me.

True Seeing
...
You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things (emphasis added)....

Leaving the question still open.

 

[Devin Firebrand]

Well I guess that's what happens when I post an opinion without any reference material at hand.

I guess the question comes down to whether you would classify True Seeing as an information gathering spell. Personally, just from the description of Mind Blank it seems like the intent was to keep people from reading your thoughts/emotions and gathering information that way. In which case True Sight isn't affected by the Mind Blank and you see the dragon.

 

[rushlight]

So if Mind Blank isn't the spell to prevent the detection of a polymorphed creature, what spell (or item) would?

It might also be interesting to note that True Seeing is a Wiz6/clr5 spell, and Mind Blank is Wiz8... It seems that on that basis, it's entirely plausable that Mind Blank could totally negate True Seeing.

If it's such a shady area, would you, as a player, be upset if your DM ruled that your True Sight didn't detect a Mind Blanked, polymorphed dragon? As a DM, what would you rule?

 

[Devin Firebrand]

So if Mind Blank isn't the spell to prevent the detection of a polymorphed creature, what spell (or item) would?

It might also be interesting to note that True Seeing is a Wiz6/clr5 spell, and Mind Blank is Wiz8... It seems that on that basis, it's entirely plausable that Mind Blank could totally negate True Seeing.

If it's such a shady area, would you, as a player, be upset if your DM ruled that your True Sight didn't detect a Mind Blanked, polymorphed dragon? As a DM, what would you rule?

I think as a player I'd probably argue that Mind Blank didn't apply. But as DM you can point to the level of the spell and that second sentence "This spell protects against all ... information gathering by divination spells...". I think it depends on whether you have any rules lawyers at your table... I wouldn't personally do it because I know a half-hour of arguments and discussion would ensue. Though, as an evil DM, I'd might just decide to give the dragon a polymorphed medusa for a companion just so that the true seeing player had some other issues to concern himself with

 

[Will]

Maybe nondetection would work.

That's what I plan on using for the assassin-cat with hidden magic items, to prevent the annoying PC with permanent arcane sight... No, that's just a cat! Really!

 

[rushlight]

Maybe nondetection would work.

That's what I plan on using for the assassin-cat with hidden magic items, to prevent the annoying PC with permanent arcane sight... No, that's just a cat! Really!

I do believe that Nondetection refers only to methods that detect your location.

It seems odd that there's no way to prevent the detection of a polymorphed creature - Mind Blank would be the most likely candidate to fill that role. I supppose I'll need to break out Rule 0 for this one...

 

[Will]

Ah, I was thrown by the 'detect' wrt 'detect magic' or 'detect evil.'

Hmm.

 

[Philip]

Since True Seeing allows SR, I assume it is somehow 'invasive' and thus eligable for Mind Blank to protect against (it obviously gathers information).

I think there was a thread about True Seeing vs. Mind Blank not too long ago.