D&D 5E Trying to make player's Warlock Patron more interesting (hexblade)

[HawaiiSteveO]

Clerics / Paladins generally default to the 'pray & get your spells' type deal for me.

Hexblade PC is different case, he carries his patron around with him!? I'd really like to flesh it out as a full NPC, but don't want to be constantly passing notes, texting to player, etc. Not even sure how involved I want patron to be - how much does it care about the day to day goings on? I suppose it could start talking, but then everyone will hear it and what would a patron say to others that are not Warlocks? Ignore them!? "Convert" them?

It doesn't seem right to have patron just carted around and not be part of the fun.

Any ideas appreciated!

 

[pdegan2814]

This is part of what I don't like about the 5e Hexblade, the flavor behind it is "meh" to me. The way they describe it in Xanathar's, the Patron is the "mysterious entity" from the Shadowfell that manifests in sentient magic weapons, but there's nothing that says the Hexblade Warlock needs to actually possess such a weapon. It's all a bit fuzzy. They even hint that the Raven Queen might the the entity behind these weapons, and that she's the one the Hexblade actually makes their Pact with. Which just makes me even more bitter they didn't bring in the Raven Queen Warlock from UA

 

[pukunui]

The hexblade makes a pact with a "shadowy entity" that may or may not be the Raven Queen. They don't carry that entity around with them. So you can treat their patron like any other patron.

EDIT: Damn! Ninja'd!

 

[Quickleaf]

Clerics / Paladins generally default to the 'pray & get your spells' type deal for me.

Hexblade PC is different case, he carries his patron around with him!? I'd really like to flesh it out as a full NPC, but don't want to be constantly passing notes, texting to player, etc. Not even sure how involved I want patron to be - how much does it care about the day to day goings on? I suppose it could start talking, but then everyone will hear it and what would a patron say to others that are not Warlocks? Ignore them!? "Convert" them?

It doesn't seem right to have patron just carted around and not be part of the fun.

Any ideas appreciated!

With the Hexblade in particular, you have a lot of leeway as DM to interpret it as you desire.

Generally, I treat warlock pacts as more tactical than a cleric's deities; that is, the cleric's deity professes ideals/overarching principles which it is up to the PC to figure out what that means on the ground, whereas a warlock's patron has very precise instructions on the ground (without explanation), which it is then up to the PC to deduce what ideal/principle/objective the patron is pursuing/professing.

So what I'd do is (A) first determine what the Hexblade wants, then (B) determine how it makes its will known to the PC. Personally, I'd go with subtle coincidences that only the player of the warlock picks up on...sort of like how Druidic can be used to leave "trail signs" that only other Druids understand. Maybe there are certain words you establish that, when spoken by a NPC, clue the warlock player into subtle messages "coming from" the Hexblade? Maybe there is a thing in your setting where swords are arranged in patterns near smithies & battlefields, and nobody really knows why, some assume it's folk tradition to repel evil spirits or let potential bandits know the inhabitants are armed...but actually they are hidden messages from the Hexblade?

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Go the Glen Cook route and have an evil dwarf (slave of the blade) show up every so once in a while to tell the warlock what the blade wants. That is a good scheme for most patrons (and for chainlocks, their familiar makes a good "messenger from the boss") as it makes it clear that the warlock is free to do as he/she wishes unless the evil dwarf is hanging around.

 

[ccs]

The weapon may be the patron itself.
Or it might just be the instrument that the patron speaks to its minion through....

In either case you should answer (at least for yourself as DM)
1) Who/What is the patron?
2) What do they want?
3) What/How do they expect the PC to accomplish this?

 

[tuxedoraptor]

Generally, with such a vague patron, I would just put it down to: "you have been given near unlimited power, you don't know why and you don't know who gave it to you. All you know is that whatever gave it to you will want a favor in return and you shudder to think what happens if you renege on your end of the deal" Pretty much, it allows you to hook the player into any subquest you want,for fear that its sent by the patron rather than just a normal subquest. Add subtle creepy things whenever the patron is brought up (player starts to research the patron, the next day the library burns to the ground and kills everyone inside. The player was the only one to escape unharmed)

 

[TheOneGargoyle]

They even hint that the Raven Queen might the the entity behind these weapons, and that she's the one the Hexblade actually makes their Pact with. Which just makes me even more bitter they didn't bring in the Raven Queen Warlock from UA

Agreed.

"You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell—a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow. The mighty sword Blaclrrazor is the most notable of these weapons, which have been spread across the multiverse over the ages. The shadowy force behind these weapons can offer power to warlocks who form pacts with it. Because the Raven Queen is known to have forged the first of these weapons, many sages speculate that she and the force are one and that the weapons, along with hexblade warlocks, are tools she uses to manipulate events on the Material Plane to her inscrutable ends."

(emphasis mine)

My take on it is that they are strongly hinting but not outright stating it, which gives a guideline for players & DM's to run with if it works for them, but leaves enough wiggle room for them to take it in a different direction if they prefer.

So, my suggestion would be : does it work for the player and the DM for it to be the RQ ? If so, then go with it, it gives lots of scope for great RP. If not, either come up with something else collaboratively, or else, let the DM keep it secret from the player and let the story unfold throughout the campaign.

Personally, I love the RQ so I'd be all over that like white on rice, but of course YMMV

 

[Aldarc]

I like the idea of reflavoring - not for everyone but some of my own campaigns - the Hexblade into an alternate Fey pact. There are fey of the Feywild and there are Dark Sidhe of the Shadowfell, with whom the Hexblade corresponds.

 

[SkylarkR6]

Not sure if it helps but my hexblade patron is the Shadowforge. A company based in the Shadowfel with a mysterious CEO that makes magical arms and armor. My character is a troubleshooter sent to make new contracts and punish people who break deals. 5% finder's fee of course, along with discounts to the company store and full access to their "Demonstration Gallery"(blade pact summons)

 

[Charlaquin]

This is part of what I don't like about the 5e Hexblade, the flavor behind it is "meh" to me. The way they describe it in Xanathar's, the Patron is the "mysterious entity" from the Shadowfell that manifests in sentient magic weapons, but there's nothing that says the Hexblade Warlock needs to actually possess such a weapon. It's all a bit fuzzy. They even hint that the Raven Queen might the the entity behind these weapons, and that she's the one the Hexblade actually makes their Pact with. Which just makes me even more bitter they didn't bring in the Raven Queen Warlock from UA

So much this!

It doesn’t help that the “mysterious entity” is characterized so differently from the Raven Queen. Kinda seems like they just threw that part in.

 

[Warpiglet]

I was planning to play a hexblade very soon. Unlike some folks here, I did not feel compelled to hew too closely to a Raven Queen or anything else. In fact, I know little to nothing about the Raven Queen.

Using the Shadowfell (don't know tons about this either) as inspiration, I was planning a patron who appears as a giant moth creature associated with decay and change. Perhaps the mysterious being is vested in things taking a natural course or it could have utterly alien or simply mysterious motives.

I took my inspiration from the Mothman Prophesies which are freaky! (Visited the town where is supposedly occurred too!). But I digress.

I encourage people to make their own stuff up. Do not feel so beholden to suggestions in the book! This is D&D for Pete's sake! Get creative!

This is one reason I generally like homebrew campaign settings. I find it discouraging when people feel a need to be totally congruent with "canon" instead of flexing their own creative muscles. I can only imagine the frustration of a DM being told "No! Drizzt was not in this town during that year! The books clearly state he was being annoyingly good elsewhere and furthermore...."

Respectfully: make something up you think is cool and ignore the fluff you are not that into. Simple.

 

[Warpiglet]

The hexblade makes a pact with a "shadowy entity" that may or may not be the Raven Queen. They don't carry that entity around with them. So you can treat their patron like any other patron.

EDIT: Damn! Ninja'd!

Right here. This is the response you are looking for.

 

[jgsugden]

As with all things D&D, consider looking to Tolkien for inspiration. A powerful force for darkness creates magic items that grant power, but at the same time expose the owner to danger? Sounds like a ringer of a story.

At first the Warlock feels like he just has a magic weapon. It allows him to blast eldritch might and curse enemies... neat! But then he notices something when his enemies fall. As they die, his blade is draining them of something. He can see it in their eyes... They don't just die... Their soul is ... taken? Devoured? Then the voices begin. Promising him more power as he tells more enemies. It only takes the souls of the Damned it says. Their actions in life sealed their fate. The weapon is just carrying out the Will of the Gods. And it isn't even the real blade... just a lesser blade in the service of the master blade. They should go find the true blade... The story continues to escalate until the PCs have to decide whether to oppose the force because it is evil, or use it because they need it to stop greater evils.

Or the PC inherited the blade from his grandfather, a powerful master of might and magic who died many years ago, but who's body was only found recently. But, as soon as the PC lifts her blade, the weapon reveals itself it discovers that the weapon was the source of their grandfather's power... and is now so weak from not feeding that it can only offer meager power to the new owner. But, the more she uses the blade, the more it will grow in power and share that power with her... It just needs to heal, so it will let her decide how to use that power... at first... But once it has regained some power it will start to suggest options. Then it will ask her for help with ancient unfinished tasks. Then it will lie about other things to keep her doing its bidding willingly...until finally she starts to experience blackouts. And then there is the whole diving into two, etc....

 

[HawaiiSteveO]

In retrospect, I should have given a bit more background.

I already have a full blown NPC in the party, with a secret backstory that is slowly coming to light and all kinds of cool things happening around he/she/it. I'd say it's pretty much a full party member as far as interacting with the PC's, the adventure etc.

I feel like the warlock has been left out, but don't want / need another party member that gets as much 'screen time' as the first one. The game is about the players, not all my NPCs!

We've already established that the hexblade PC has a sentient magic weapon, whether or not it's the actual 'patron' itself or a link to the patron doesn't matter. I want to develop the PC's relationship with the patron beyond the bland 'you get invocations / spells from it' trope.

Very much agree on the raven queen thing it can be anything I want, Ctrl-Alt-Del on whole thing and see what I can come up with...

 

[Ganymede81]

Really all the information they give us about the Hexblade's patron is that it is some power in the Shadowfell. That's really it.

That's enough leeway that the patron could be a sentient weapon, the Raven Queen herself, or any powerful denizen of the plane or related to the plane. Undead like ghosts, liches, and vampires have a powerful connection to the Shadowfell and so would make great patrons.

Personally, my Hexblade's patron is the unquiet ghost of his dead mother.

 

[Warpiglet]

As with all things D&D, consider looking to Tolkien for inspiration. A powerful force for darkness creates magic items that grant power, but at the same time expose the owner to danger? Sounds like a ringer of a story.

At first the Warlock feels like he just has a magic weapon. It allows him to blast eldritch might and curse enemies... neat! But then he notices something when his enemies fall. As they die, his blade is draining them of something. He can see it in their eyes... They don't just die... Their soul is ... taken? Devoured? Then the voices begin. Promising him more power as he tells more enemies. It only takes the souls of the Damned it says. Their actions in life sealed their fate. The weapon is just carrying out the Will of the Gods. And it isn't even the real blade... just a lesser blade in the service of the master blade. They should go find the true blade... The story continues to escalate until the PCs have to decide whether to oppose the force because it is evil, or use it because they need it to stop greater evils.

Or the PC inherited the blade from his grandfather, a powerful master of might and magic who died many years ago, but who's body was only found recently. But, as soon as the PC lifts her blade, the weapon reveals itself it discovers that the weapon was the source of their grandfather's power... and is now so weak from not feeding that it can only offer meager power to the new owner. But, the more she uses the blade, the more it will grow in power and share that power with her... It just needs to heal, so it will let her decide how to use that power... at first... But once it has regained some power it will start to suggest options. Then it will ask her for help with ancient unfinished tasks. Then it will lie about other things to keep her doing its bidding willingly...until finally she starts to experience blackouts. And then there is the whole diving into two, etc....

In fact, this made me reconsider my backstory a bit. I like the idea of the evil wizard gifting the captain of the guard a weapon that begins to haunt the guard and suggest rebellion. He double crosses the wizard and sets off on his own.

Although I just realized this has a little bit of vecna in it, I will work to change it for my own. Still like my idea of an alien entity being at work...I am going to combine these ideas. It will take a little work....

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Some random ideas:

* The blade isn't sentient or maybe just doesn't ever communicate with anyone. The Warlock doesn't so much have a pact with the blade as a certain magical attunement to it. The "services" the Warlock might perform for the blade are actually just tasks that the Warlock undertakes to maintain or study the item. Perhaps the blade needs to absorb souls (possibly specific ones)...or cursed magic...or rare types of blood.

* The blade is actually a dark reflection of the Warlock's own soul mirrored through shadowstuff. The blade mirrors the Warlock's actions, drawing them toward death, evil, sorrow, overindulgence, or other themes typically associated with the shadowfell. For example - the blade might start encouraging a Warlock to start fights after getting into a bar-room brawl; kill children after the Warlock overcomes a goblin youth in combat; encouraging excess or demanding to be washed in blood after the Warlock spends repeated night drinking alcohol.

* The blade is a sentient being with its own secret agenda that the Warlock is not at first aware of. Examples might include: Spreading living shadowstuff to the prime material plane (a la Stranger things season 2), destroying a particular entity or civilization, gathering power / souls / artifacts for some obscure extraplanar entity. The blade might whisper suggestions / encouragement to get the Warlock to act in accordance with its desires. Or it acts subtly - becoming heavier or randomly slipping to the ground when it does not wish the Warlock to leave an area, leaping to hand or jerking toward a particular creature when it wants the Warlock to attack, twisting away from things it wants the Warlock NOT to attack. The Warlock may or may not approve of the blade's agenda.