TSR TSR3.5 Launches IndieGogo Campaign to "Stop" WotC

The latest in the TSR3 saga, which has gone quiet for a while, is a new IndieGoGo campaign launched to "stop Wizards of the Coast". They cite wrongful bullying of TSR, and refusal to answer requests that WotC show TSR "proof of their claims" (although the campaign page doesn't mention what those claims are).

The IndieGoGo campaign was launched yesterday and has so far raised $675 (at the time of writing).

The action TSR seeks is a "Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership" which is a court declaration about the status of something in dispute.

TSR has launched a campaign to stop Wizards of the Coast

Become a Champion of TSR and Support TSR’s campaign against Wizards of the Coast!

TSR is taking a stand against Wizards of the Coast (“WOTC”) and its wrongful bullying of TSR, our trademarks, and its public libeling and slander of all those who helped create TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and products.

Wizards of the Coast has continually bullied TSR regarding TSR’s legally owned Trademarks. Wizards of the Coast has refused to answer all of TSR's repeated requests that they show any proof of their claims. Wizards of the Coast has the vast resources behind them and is implying to bring them to bear down on TSR.


The new TSR suffered widespread pushback when it launched, which they blamed on WotC, claiming that they were under a "coordinated assault across various channels being mounted.... by [WotC]" The company announced itself earlier this year, having acquired the TSR trademark after the previous holder accidentally let it lapse. It was run by Ernie Gygax, Justin LaNasa, and Stephen Dinehart. After several weeks of controversy, the company split into two -- Wonderfilled (Stephen Dinehart), and TSR (Ernie Gygax and Justin LaNasa).


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The page also indicates an intention to "fight to have WotC's legacy product disclaimer removed" from older products (that's the disclaimer on the older books available on DMs Guild which indicates that those books are products of their time) by claiming that the disclaimer portrays the creators of those older products as "as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products".


TSR will also Fight to Have the WOTC Legacy Disclaimer Removed

TSR is suing WOTC for Trademark Declaratory Judgement of Ownership . TSR will also pursue in the near future having WOTC remove the legacy content disclaimer placed on TSR based Dungeons & Dragons and other products, and retractions of any other libel and slander which alleges that racism and other heinous beliefs are incorporated into those products.

This disclaimer attempts to make a statement of fact argument, and therefore paints all of the writers, editors, artists and consumers of those products as supporting those alleged prejudices, stereotypes and bigotry, wrongfully claimed to be part of those products. This statement by Wizards of the Coast opens the possibility for the producers and players of these "Legacy Products" to face ridicule, and face the labeling as "bigots", "racists", "misogynists", and worse Cyber & Physical Attacks!

Wizards of the Coast legacy content disclaimer.

"We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end".


TSR3's Justin LaNasa spoke about the campaign in a YouTube video.


 
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Russ Morrissey

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Emrico

Explorer
So now
Not just failing. I would watch for the three things (assuming there isn't a motion to dismiss)-

1. If they just file an answer and affirmative defenses, then they are seeking to make this go away and quickly with a rapid victory.

2. If they include counterclaims, then they are trying to expand this and likely end nuTSR's antics with extreme prejudice.

3. If they include counterclaims and add individuals as counter-defendants, such as LaNasa, then they are trying to end nuTSR's antics with extreme prejudice AND making it very clear that they are aware of his LLC shell games and are making sure he has some skin the litigation. In other words, they're angry and seeking retribution.

(Regarding 3, while normally you'd have to go after the LLC and hope to pierce the corporate veil, which is incredibly unlikely, artful pleading and LaNasa's high profile might allow claims to be brought against him individually that would survive a motion to dismiss.)

Regardless, this should be interesting!
And now Grits LaNaga is spamming Old School FB groups claiming that the stay by WotC means they have cancelled the lawsuit and that NuTSR will win the declaratory judgement. The man does nothing but lie.
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
So now

And now Grits LaNaga is spamming Old School FB groups claiming that the stay by WotC means they have cancelled the lawsuit and that NuTSR will win the declaratory judgement. The man does nothing but lie.

I don't know what it actually means, but this was posted a few hours ago on their twitter:

 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Well, Tomorrow came and went, and DriveThruRPG is still using that same legacy disclaimer. I noticed it when I was purchasing and downloading my new PDF copy of AC9, Creature Catalog.

I guess they got held up in traffic or something? Looks like we will have to wait until Monday for them to stop WotC.

EDIT: Nope, I stand corrected. The problem wasn't traffic, the problem is that this whole idea was poorly conceived from the beginning, and hasn't improved. Still. Fingers crossed for Monday!
 
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I don't know what it actually means, but this was posted a few hours ago on their twitter:

It means that WotC agreed to put the case that was being overseen by the USPTO (filed by WotC) on hold until the suit in WA (filed by NuTSR) is resolved. This is in no way a win for NuTSR. Nothing was dismissed. It's just a standard procedural pause. If anything this is a very minor win for WotC, as it could be used to draw the full process out a little bit longer; Hasbro is better equipped to deal with long term litigation than LaNasa.

There's no way to know for sure if LaNasa is completely ignorant of what this really means, or if he's just making noise to try and russle people up.
 

Emrico

Explorer
There's no way to know for sure if LaNasa is completely ignorant of what this really means, or if he's just making noise to try and russle people up.

His post on one of the AD&D FB Groups:

"Thank you all that support TSR. WOTC Filing Against TSR has been Canceled. Its not over yet! We will Push to have the legacy Disclaimer removed or changed. Please support the cause 8 days left"

(Indiegogo link removed cuz I'm not posting that grift attempt)

Obviously trying to paint this as a win for NuTS R Us in an attempt to separate more gullible people from their money. Even though there is still absolutely NOTHING in any of the legal filings regarding the disclaimer and its removal. But he keeps milking that cow.

That reminds me, I need to restock my popcorn supply.

Jim
 

Over the weekend I saw the post on the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum's Facebook page. Someone rightly pointed out that if you read the text itself, it does not at all say that it was cancelled. LaNasa replied with "it says cancellation at the top." Whatever happened from there on out, I don't know, because on Monday morning all of the comments had been wiped out.

Likewise, I still don't know if LaNasa really believes it or just doesn't want someone pointing out that he's lying.

It means that WotC agreed to put the case that was being overseen by the USPTO (filed by WotC) on hold until the suit in WA (filed by NuTSR) is resolved. This is in no way a win for NuTSR. Nothing was dismissed. It's just a standard procedural pause. If anything this is a very minor win for WotC, as it could be used to draw the full process out a little bit longer; Hasbro is better equipped to deal with long term litigation than LaNasa.

There's no way to know for sure if LaNasa is completely ignorant of what this really means, or if he's just making noise to try and russle people up.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
"Thank you all that support TSR. WOTC Filing Against TSR has been Canceled. Its not over yet! We will Push to have the legacy Disclaimer removed or changed. Please support the cause 8 days left"
Hey weirdos that buy the crap LaNasa sells! LaNasa canceled something Get him!
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Over the weekend I saw the post on the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum's Facebook page. Someone rightly pointed out that if you read the text itself, it does not at all say that it was cancelled. LaNasa replied with "it says cancellation at the top." Whatever happened from there on out, I don't know, because on Monday morning all of the comments had been wiped out.

Likewise, I still don't know if LaNasa really believes it or just doesn't want someone pointing out that he's lying.

The recurring problem is that when you're dealing with someone who has a history of both prevarication and less-than-optimal choices ...

It can be hard to chose between ignorance and lying.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Well, I just ordered a POD copy of GAZ2: The Emirates of Ylaruam and a POD copy of CM1: Test of the Warlords, from DriveThruRPG. (I already own the originals, but I wanted clean POD copies that I can re-read and loan out to friends, etc.)

Anyway. I noticed that the Legacy Disclaimer is still on the DTRPG sales page, so I guess they still haven't stopped Wizards of the Coast. I know, I know...I was shocked too. But maybe they will stop them tomorrow?
 


CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Seriously though. If I thought they would respond with an insightful and well-reasoned answer, it would almost be worth donating $1 to their IndieGoGo page just to ask them directly one question: what, specifically, is so wrong about the Legacy Content Disclaimer? Because I've read it dozens of times, slowly and carefully, and I cannot figure out what nuTSR is on about.

Wizards of the Coast: "Hey, just a heads-up: some of our older content might reflect some outdated prejudices. We don't want to pretend it wasn't a big deal or that it never happened, though, so we're not going to blot it out or change anything. We're just going to try to do better going forward."

NuTSR: "How dare you call me a bigot. How could you insult all those people who worked so hard on these beloved products? I'll see you in court."

Me: "...what?"
 
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CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
Three days to go! This is turning into a real nail-biter.

ViciousMockery.png


You know, I never really bothered to read the text in that widget. There's a lot to unpack. Sounds like their message is that they believe, and apparently that belief is enough to take Wizards of the Coast to court.
 

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