Tumble House Rules?

[Archade]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of toying with Tumble in my campaign, and run it this way:

Tumble: to tumble past an opponent, make an opposed skill check against their chance to hit. If you fail, they receive an Attack of Opportunity. Subsequent opponents in the same maneuver get +2 to hit. Tumbling at full speed grants opponents +10 to hit. Tumbling through an opponent's square grants them +10 to hit.

What do you think? What sort of other variants are people using out there for tumble?

 

[Fieari]

That's a pretty standard variant. On the other hand, opposed rolls can bog down combat by having too many dice rolls in a row with not enough "bang for the buck" (repeated rolls without a final result can get boring fast). You may find it simpler to assume that the attacker is "Taking 10" on his side of the opposed roll, and just set the tumble DC to 10+Enemy Attack Bonus.

 

[Doomhawk]

I used that rule for a while, and it did slow down gameplay a little, but more importantly it seemed to be a huge nerf to Tumble. A DC of 10 + BAB (or some such) is IMO more reasonable, because it means that high-level Tumble checks aren't trivial, but still lets the skill be useful.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Two points to keep in mind when selecting (or designing) tumble variants.

1) Multiple rolls slow down play. Calculations slow down play. Having both really slows down play.

2) Opposed checks favor the guy with the bigger bonus. A +4 edge translates into about 80% success during an opposed check.

All that said, I have the Tumble result opposed by a BAB check (1d20 + BAB + Str or Dex) or Tumble check. Ties go to the defender.
Of course, I also allow a character to self-flank (be on both sides during a single turn before the attack) and to use an opposed Tumble check to deny dexterity bonuses to defense. So while the 'avoid AoO' option is more difficult, tumble has some other great uses that make it a powerful skill.

 

[el-remmen]

I use the following:

Tumble
The mechanics for tumbling make tumbling through threatened areas and through occupied squares slightly more difficult in Aquerra.

Through a Threatened Area: In order, to tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so through a threatened area make a Tumble check. Opponents are allowed a base attack check modified by Dexterity against the Tumble check result to be allowed an attack of opportunity as normal. Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first applies a -2 penalty to your Tumble check.

Through an Occupied Square: As above, except the opponent gains +4 to his BAB check and your Tumble check must be at least 15 to succeed. A successful check by an opponent means you stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy. Check separately for each opponent. Each additional enemy after the first applies a -2 penalty to your Tumble check.

 

[Sir Brennen]

This is a fairly common discussion, and popped up recently in this thread. One version I recommended in that thread is simply having the AoO roll itself be the opposed check, which basically means the tumbler uses his check for his AC.

 

[starwed]

One version I recommended in that thread is simply having the AoO roll itself be the opposed check, which basically means the tumbler uses his check for his AC.

Does the attacker thus lose his AoO on a failed attack roll?

 

[Sir Brennen]

Does the attacker thus lose his AoO on a failed attack roll?

No, he makes his AoO as normal; *that* attack roll is what's used vs. the tumble check, but it's most likely going to be against a much higher AC (especially if one allows all Dodge bonuses to apply to the roll, as suggested in the other thread.) The idea is to reduce the number of rolls for the Tumble-by-opponent situation.

This means that an attacker w/o Combat Reflexes has used his AoO for the round, so in that sense, yes, he's "lost" it

Easiest way to think of it: tumblers provoke AoO's as normal, but use the better of their normal AC or (Tumble Check) for their defense.

 

[ken-ichi]

Our group has the Tumble roll opposed by a Reflex save DC of the tumble check.
If the Reflex check fails then the AoO is not taken and they are allowed to use their AoO on the next opportunity that arises.
It is fairly hard to tumble past things like air elementals, but those lumbering giants are much easier to dive between the legs of.

 

[frankthedm]

No, he makes his AoO as normal; *that* attack roll is what's used vs. the tumble check, but it's most likely going to be against a much higher AC (especially if one allows all Dodge bonuses to apply to the roll, as suggested in the other thread.) The idea is to reduce the number of rolls for the Tumble-by-opponent situation.

This means that an attacker w/o Combat Reflexes has used his AoO for the round, so in that sense, yes, he's "lost" it

Easiest way to think of it: tumblers provoke AoO's as normal, but use the better of their normal AC or (Tumble Check) for their defense.

That is the one i use. It makes mobility worthwhile as a feat to someone who tumbles and makes the only way someone can assuredly avoid the AoO is with spring attack. A good thing IMHO, since feats should not be devalued by skills. And it adds great value to a rogue choosing tumble as one of those always can take 10 skills later on.

Tumble: Does not prevent AoOs, Your check result, if higher than your AC, is your AC against Attacks of Opportunity for moving through threatened areas. [subtract 10 if you tumble through their space] [add Mobility and other dodge bonuses if applicable.]

Nearly all rogues will have;
level+3
dex
+2 synergy
_______________
Some will have;
+4 Mobility
+1 dodge
+3 skill focus

A varient on this is to give a Tumbler a bonus = to the creature's size penalty.

[L=1, H=2, G=4 C=8]

This way the tumbler has a small counter to the high hit bonus of a really big creature. If this would not be enough, try doubling or quading the bonus.

[L=2, H=4, G=8 C=16]
[L=4, H=8, G=16 C=32]

Thus the big uncordinated monster has a really hard chance nail the dinky tumbler.