D&D 5E Turn 2 full casters into pact casters

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
If I was to try and codify all the magic systems in standard D&D and change up the mechanical expressions to give us different "types" of magic systems... I might do something like this:

Planar magic (also called "Divine" by some people) would be magic granted to worshippers on the Prime plane from beings from the planes and use pact magic casting. So Warlocks and Clerics (and Paladins) have small amounts of spells, but always cast at the highest level. They also have Invocations (or Miracles or Oaths) that grant them magical ability that does not require spells or spellcasting. In order to gain access, you have to pledge yourself to an extraplanar being and they may choose to bless you with power.

Primal magic (magic that comes from the Prime plane) would be considered something like "the Force"... the energy of the planet a person is on that certain people are able draw from in varying quantities. This would be your Druids and Sorcerers (and Monks) and would be all Spell Point based. These magic users do not have a set formula of "you can this amount of spells at this level, that number of spells at that level" that spell slot casters go... but rather they draw from a pool of energy in whatever quantities they want (hence the spell points) that comes out of them, whether by spells or by wildshaping/bodyshaping. (And personally I kind of like the idea that certain Sorcerers/Monks could have their own versions of "wildshaping" based upon their magical origins... a draconic sorcerer can begin to bodyshape and take on aspects of a dragon, a monk could bodyshape and begin to transform their body into something as hard as diamond, etc.)

Finally there is Arcane magic, (or technical magic) that comes from the astral and ethereal planes. This "Weave" of magical energy is connected tenuously to the Prime plane and if you study and work and learn the techniques necessary to tap into it in very specific ways, you can generate magical effects. So this would be your Wizards, your Bards, your Artificers all of which use Spell Slots. These classes are all about the "scientific blueprints" you need to create spells-- either the magical incantations of a Wizard that are written down in a spellbook, the magical aural and somatic notes you need to experiment with and then play as a Bard, the actual blueprints you create as an Artificer. And this is why everything is so regimented in the Spell Slot system... there's a science to it that has to be followed in order to be able to tap into that arcane font of magic.

What's important to note is that unlike the other two types, anyone can become an Arcane magician, so long as they study it and work hard at it. Planar (or Divine) magicians have to be granted their magic through their pacts and/or worship, and Primal magicians have to be born with it. Arcane spellcasting is open to everyone else and is the egalitarian magic.
 

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TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
If I was to try and codify all the magic systems in standard D&D and change up the mechanical expressions to give us different "types" of magic systems... I might do something like this:

Planar magic (also called "Divine" by some people) would be magic granted to worshippers on the Prime plane from beings from the planes and use pact magic casting. So Warlocks and Clerics (and Paladins) have small amounts of spells, but always cast at the highest level. They also have Invocations (or Miracles or Oaths) that grant them magical ability that does not require spells or spellcasting. In order to gain access, you have to pledge yourself to an extraplanar being and they may choose to bless you with power.

Primal magic (magic that comes from the Prime plane) would be considered something like "the Force"... the energy of the planet a person is on that certain people are able draw from in varying quantities. This would be your Druids and Sorcerers (and Monks) and would be all Spell Point based. These magic users do not have a set formula of "you can this amount of spells at this level, that number of spells at that level" that spell slot casters go... but rather they draw from a pool of energy in whatever quantities they want (hence the spell points) that comes out of them, whether by spells or by wildshaping/bodyshaping. (And personally I kind of like the idea that certain Sorcerers/Monks could have their own versions of "wildshaping" based upon their magical origins... a draconic sorcerer can begin to bodyshape and take on aspects of a dragon, a monk could bodyshape and begin to transform their body into something as hard as diamond, etc.)

Finally there is Arcane magic, (or technical magic) that comes from the astral and ethereal planes. This "Weave" of magical energy is connected tenuously to the Prime plane and if you study and work and learn the techniques necessary to tap into it in very specific ways, you can generate magical effects. So this would be your Wizards, your Bards, your Artificers all of which use Spell Slots. These classes are all about the "scientific blueprints" you need to create spells-- either the magical incantations of a Wizard that are written down in a spellbook, the magical aural and somatic notes you need to experiment with and then play as a Bard, the actual blueprints you create as an Artificer. And this is why everything is so regimented in the Spell Slot system... there's a science to it that has to be followed in order to be able to tap into that arcane font of magic.

What's important to note is that unlike the other two types, anyone can become an Arcane magician, so long as they study it and work hard at it. Planar (or Divine) magicians have to be granted their magic through their pacts and/or worship, and Primal magicians have to be born with it. Arcane spellcasting is open to everyone else and is the egalitarian magic.
I can think of a few alternate approaches, but I can't improve on this. Good work.

Now I have to look for (or brainstorm) a spell-point druid! :)
 

Gorck

Prince of Dorkness
I would go with Bard for one of them. Invocations could become Performances (songs, stories, poems, dances, tumbling and other assorted tomfoolery). Mystic Arcanum could become similar to Magical Secrets, but for select higher level spells.
 

Druid I think works best for the modern shapeshifter fantasy. Invocations to allow wild shape add-ons and monstrous effects (poison, webs, grab, etc) and let the player mix and match for chimeric creations. The reduced spells match the playstyle a lot are looking for in a more shifter focused character, and the nature cleric is right there for a more traditional full caster.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Yea, I think having the 3 classes with pact magic represent one "type" of magic, and the other 3 classes represent an opposing approach (like arcane and divine), could really be an interesting way to embed the cosmology in the setting.
But it would straitjacket character concepts. If you want to play a divine (or, for warlocks, quasi-divine) caster, you no longer have a neo-Vancian option. You're stuck with pact magic. Likewise, if you want to play an arcane caster, you have no pact magic option and can only use neo-Vancian.

I'd rather see pact magic and neo-Vancian distributed evenly among the different magic types, to offer players more flexibility. That's why I'd give pact magic to sorcerers and druids; the sorcerer would be the pact magic counterpart to the wizard, and the druid would be the pact magic counterpart to the cleric.
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
But it would straitjacket character concepts. If you want to play a divine (or, for warlocks, quasi-divine) caster, you no longer have a neo-Vancian option. You're stuck with pact magic. Likewise, if you want to play an arcane caster, you have no pact magic option and can only use neo-Vancian.

I'd rather see pact magic and neo-Vancian distributed evenly among the different magic types, to offer players more flexibility. That's why I'd give pact magic to sorcerers and druids; the sorcerer would be the pact magic counterpart to the wizard, and the druid would be the pact magic counterpart to the cleric.
I mean, I suppose that's true, but I don't see a ton of people defining their character concept in terms of being an "arcane caster" or "divine caster" anymore. Especially since arcane and divine are essentially legacy terms in relation to the 5e core, they carry zero mechanical weight. They don't even carry a lot of fictional weight, since the arcane and divine classes don't have a lot of overlap in fictional role or fictional elements.

The best way to not straitjacket anyone would be to give every caster class the choice between pact and neo-Vancian at character creation.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Here's my archivist homebrew that I mentioned (attached pdf). It's a pact caster in all but name, with a few twists.

The archivist is a sage with a focus on lore/language who buffs their party. I often seem to have one player who wants to play the scholar/noncombatant type in 5e games, so this is sweet spot for them.

Quick notes:
  • You'll notice a medley of borrowed concepts – Tome Magic resembles warlock's Pact Magic but lacks cantrips, allows all rituals, uses a wizard-style Spellbook w/ preparation, and gets a feature allowing breaking spells slots into lower level slots. Expertise is from rogue/bard. Stillness of Mind is from monk. Higher Mind is a mental stat reflection of barbarian's capstone.
  • I've blended the 3.5e archivist class from Heroes of Horror, the Savant class from Dragon #140, the alienist variant in 2e’s Player’s Option: Spells & Magic along with its d20 version in Complete Arcane, 4e arcana skill powers, and my own madcap ideas.
  • I homebrew skill stuff, so in a non-homebrewed game you can treat it as getting 4 skills and ignore underlined homebrew skills. Also asterisk/star-marked spells are homebrew.
  • Spell list on last page (virtually no damage-dealing / no healing magic).
 

Attachments

  • QL_Archivist_classhomebrew_0.1.pdf
    1.9 MB · Views: 16

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
The apothecary (a 3rd party class by the Dungeons of Drakkenheim crew) is an int-based "short rest" caster that uses int as the casting stat. I highly recommend it.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
In the core 5e rules, there is one pact caster (Warlock) and 5 other full casters (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard).

Assume, as a hypothetical, you wanted to have 3 pact casters and 3 full casters in your version of the core rules.

What 2 classes of the 5 full casters would you turn into pact casters, with the full suite of Pact Magic, Invocations, and Mystic Arcanum, tailored to the class?

What informed your choices? What other changes to the class would you make to support that change?
I can live with converting any two classes into a short-rest Warlock chassis. That said, and in answer to the question:

Since Wizard and Cleric are old school, I would leave those alone. Despite the Druid being old school, I would convert it to the short rest chassis to distinguish it further from the Cleric. What to do with Sorcerer is trickier, because in different ways, it is both too much like a Wizard and too much like Warlock. I think making the Bard short rest would make some players happy. But it is important to emphasize it is a full caster, thus make it more like whatever the Wizard is. The Celtic mythologically accurate Merlin is a Bard, not a Wizard.

In short, to answer the question: definitely the Druid. Maybe the Sorcerer depending on finetuning of the concept that is more clearly not a Wizard (mechanics) and not a Warlock (narrative).

There can also be new classes: Psion, Swordmage, and Warlord (!), and the three can use the Warlock chassis. The Warlord "spells" are at-will "maneuvers" and short-rest "exploits", using the spell format but belonging to the nonmagical "martial" school.


At the same time, my preference is. In the DMs Guide, create a spell point system that refreshes at each short rest. The number of points equals the caster level + 1. The cost of each spell is its slot value. To cast a Fireball costs 3 spell points. Of course, one cannot cast a spell higher than ones caster level/2 roundup. So one must be at least level 5 to cast a slot 3 Fireball.

With this spell casting variant, any player can make their full caster class a short-rest caster, instead. Similarly, a Warlock can switch to a spell point system instead of its spell slots.
 
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Vaalingrade

Legend
Wizard.

Like maybe for the first time in D&D's history, they might actually be portrayed as casting out of their book, having to locate the spell to perform it with a few spells they've committed to memory. Wizards.... who actually match the fiction of wizards!

And Clerics

They're already warlocks in service to a patron and now the domain can be their invocations.
 

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