Turning Undead too powerful?
- Thread starter Durifern
- Start date
Turning is powerful, but it is pretty easy to circumvent for intelligent opposition. This is especially true when the players are not paying attention. There are four basic tactics when the PCs are fighting undead that downturn turning:
1) Always make sure the undead can run away as opposed to being forced into a corner. Then as a DM do not forget that these undead will most likely return after 10 rounds.
2) Send in the lesser undead who the PCs can defeat without turning and only after a few times send in the more powerful ones.
3) Attack the cleric as quickly as possible, preferably with level draining attacks.
4) Make sure you have got evil clerics at your side and do not forget to bolster the undead. I remember a scene in which my players where real scared of a couple of normal skeletons, becuase they could not be turned by the 5th lvl cleric. The players did not realize the skeletons were bolstered and that they were standing in a unhallowed area. They thought they were facing 6 HD skeletons instead of the normal 1 HD one.
Also remember the following things. Never, ever forget turn resistance and note that this is in the number crunching bit and NOT the description. I am stating this, because in the beginning I forgot this as well. Ghouls and ghasts have got a turn resistance of +2, meaning that a 4th lvl cleric would need a 10+ to turn them. Wights are more powerful, so I am a bit surprised at the number of 7+. When the turning attempts fail -and they do fail now and then- undead can really hurt. I remember a battle against 10 ghouls, and the 5th lvl cleric failed 5 turn attempts even though a roll of 5+ would have been enough to turn them.
Question for those out there: Does turn resistance also increase the HD for determining the amount of undead turned?
1) Always make sure the undead can run away as opposed to being forced into a corner. Then as a DM do not forget that these undead will most likely return after 10 rounds.
2) Send in the lesser undead who the PCs can defeat without turning and only after a few times send in the more powerful ones.
3) Attack the cleric as quickly as possible, preferably with level draining attacks.
4) Make sure you have got evil clerics at your side and do not forget to bolster the undead. I remember a scene in which my players where real scared of a couple of normal skeletons, becuase they could not be turned by the 5th lvl cleric. The players did not realize the skeletons were bolstered and that they were standing in a unhallowed area. They thought they were facing 6 HD skeletons instead of the normal 1 HD one.
Also remember the following things. Never, ever forget turn resistance and note that this is in the number crunching bit and NOT the description. I am stating this, because in the beginning I forgot this as well. Ghouls and ghasts have got a turn resistance of +2, meaning that a 4th lvl cleric would need a 10+ to turn them. Wights are more powerful, so I am a bit surprised at the number of 7+. When the turning attempts fail -and they do fail now and then- undead can really hurt. I remember a battle against 10 ghouls, and the 5th lvl cleric failed 5 turn attempts even though a roll of 5+ would have been enough to turn them.
Question for those out there: Does turn resistance also increase the HD for determining the amount of undead turned?
Larcen
Explorer
Crothian said:
?! Holy cats, Crothian. We ARE talking 3E clerics here are we not?
I can't believe how offhandedly you just disregarded one of, if not THE, most powerful classes in the game.
Believe me, turning for clerics in just the icing on the cake. They have sooooooo many other goodies...
(P.S. I LOVE my cleric PC.)
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Ridley's Cohort
First Post
IceBear said:He did mention "without casting half a dozen spells" firstAs a former cleric PC, I have to agree with this - sure I could fight decently, but until I buffed myself with a set of spells first I was merely ok
I think Crothian choice of the phrase "have his glory" is very apt.
While the cleric is a very competent and useful grunt, he is not going to outshine the Focused Specialized Spring Cleaving Fighter. While the cleric is a very competent and useful spellcaster, he is not going to outshine the Metamagick Energy-subbing Wizard.
The cleric is consistently the most useful class. But he earns less glory than many others, going up against undead being the notable exception.
Larcen
Explorer
Ridley's Cohort said:
I agree with all this, RC. But, for a long-term adventuring career, I would rather have a PC that is good (note, not average) at a lot of things, then great at a few.
Bottom line, look at a cleric's abilities collectively, and not individually, and you will see that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
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Larcen said:
I agree with all this, RC. But, for a long-term adventuring career, I would rather have a PC that is good (note, not average) at a lot of things, then great at a few.
Bottom line, look at a cleric's abilities collectively, and not individually, and you will see that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
That rarely matters when you spend 80% of any given fight saving the rest of the party from dying. I had a 12th level cleric in the last campaign I was in. Sure I could kick butt, but if you play as part of a team (not to mention roleplaying properly) most of your spells are better cast on other party members, and keeping everyong alive is more important than personal glory. I've had my moments, but more often than not I saved the day by casting Heal on the fighter to keep him alive and dealing damage or saved someone who was down and dying.
Humility is a blessing as a cleric. I knew I could be the most powerful party member (given about 3 rounds and all my spell for the day), but what good is that if everyone else is down and dying and I'm forced to fight all the enemies by myself?
