Turning Undead too powerful?

[Durifern]

Lately I was throwing some undead against my group and I was amazed how easy it was for the cleric to turn them. He´s a 4th level cleric and it´s no problem for him to turn a wight for example: he has to roll a 7 (Cha check) and if he succeeds, he can turn at least two wights, perhaps even more.

Sure, there are tricks to handle that, throw in some zombis/skeletons to take away some of the damage, but that´s like cheating and it doesn´t help much either, because in the next round he will turn the rest.

Perhaps I´m still used to the old D&D rules, there it was quite hard to turn anything, particularly for low-level clerics. Now even turning nighwings isn´t impossible at all.

What´s your experience?

 

[bensei]

Similar.
- Encounter without Cleric. Very hard.
- Encounter with Cleric. Over, before it began.
But well, Clerics are made to be specialized on fighting against undead.

But it is an interesting exercise:

Who can design an encounter with undead which is a challenge for a group with a cleric, but it is still doable, if the group is without their cleric?

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I like it. Allow the cleric to have his glory, because other then that and healing he can't do much unless he spends half dozen spells per day.

 

[Thanee]

Minor Undead are easy to turn, the more advanced ones with turn resistance and higher hit dice are not so easy.

Sure, the Cleric will turn one or two, and if that's all they encounter, that was an easy victory, but if there are more, then it's not so helpful, since the turned ones will return after a few rounds and you have to deal with the other ones meanwhile.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Wolf72]

and then there are some clerics with really a bad charisma ... heck, that -2 or -3 to your check can be a real pain.

*ej winces as his brother, the cleric of Kord, attempts to turn the undead ... and fails because of cha modifier!*

 

[0-hr]

My main problem with Turning is just the "cowering" rules. IMC, we house ruled cowering so that a cowering creature could defend itself if attacked. That made things a bit more interesting.

One thing that makes turning especially powerful is DMs who just figure anything turned is gone, off the map, put away the minis. Really, unless it is destroyed, you still need to deal with it. What will the ogres in the next room down think when a bunch of frightened skeletons come sprinting through their room? In many situation, turning undead could just be a quick way to tell the entire dungeon that you are there!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

There are a couple easy tricks:

(1) Mix it up with different HDs. A few added weak undead will not significantly change the challenge rating of the encounter but the extra HDs will absorb some of that turning damage. You are also burning up an extra turning attempt per day.

(2) What is good for the goose. Intelligent undead can rebuke or buttress undead themselves. Some of those undead have surprising Cha bonuses, too, and you can give one undead a boosted Cha. Cha + 3 turning attempts per day is not very many when you are getting in a turn/rebuke war over zombies.

 

[Epametheus]

Turn resistance is always good -- anything with +4 resistence with even a single hit die or level more than the turning cleric is completely immune to the cleric.

But otherwise, let the clerics and the paladins have their fun; Defenders of the Faith put out a bunch of feats that burn up turning uses just so that characters could actually do something with all those turn attempts that they get each day.

 

[Darkness]

Pesky goody-two-shoes "clerics" with their k3w1 Turn Undead p0w3rz...

Anyway, real clerics use Rebuke Undead!

 

[Magic Rub]

Anyway, real clerics use Rebuke Undead!

Yup! Nuthing quite like gettin' em to dance for ya! ...or for that matter protect, & fight for you too.