TWF penalties and AOOs

[Ranger REG]

An ongoing benefit isn't required - charging grants a single attack bonus in exchange for a persistent AC penalty, for example.

Ah, but according to the SRD -- which I am pretty sure it is also in the PHB -- it specifically mentioned that the AC penalty lasts until your next turn, if you choose to make a charge attack.

There is no mentioned in the two-weapon fighting rules nor in any of the TWF feat trees. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Honestly, I do not wish to further penalize two-weapon fighters by penalizing their AoO, especially when they're only making a single melee attack per AoO.

 

[RigaMortus]

If my BAB is +6/+1 and I am "holding" (or wielding, if it fits better) a weapon in each hand BUT I do not have TWF, can I make a full-round attack and have one weapon attack at +6 and the other weapon at +1, w/o incuring any penalities for fighting with 2 weapons?

If so, can I choose which weapon I attack with during an AoO?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If my BAB is +6/+1 and I am "holding" (or wielding, if it fits better) a weapon in each hand BUT I do not have TWF, can I make a full-round attack and have one weapon attack at +6 and the other weapon at +1, w/o incuring any penalities for fighting with 2 weapons?

Whether or not you have the feat makes no difference to the answer.

The only difference is that if the answer is ""You incur penalties", the penalties are bigger without the feat

What the answer actually is depends on the interpretation of "fight this way" - that's what these questions always come down to.

If "fight this way" means "wield a second weapon in your off-hand", then you'd incur penalties.

If "fight this way" means "get an extra attack each round", then you wouldn't incur penalties.

In either case, since you're definitely wielding both weapons, you'd be eligible to use either in an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus]

Oh yeah, that's right... I was going back to 2E thinking where, if you didn't have the ability, you couldn't do it. Where as, in 3.x, if you don't have the feat, you can do it, BUT...

 

[Ranger REG]

Are you still hung up on the "fight this way" phrase, Hypersmurf?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Are you still hung up on the "fight this way" phrase, Hypersmurf?

Absolutely.

It's the key phrase that all of the "Do I incur TWF penalties?" questions hinge on.

And I can only point to the 3E Main FAQ answer on Defending weapons as the only one that addresses it even peripherally, where you must incur TWF penalties to benefit from a Defending weapon in your off-hand (ie, to be considered the 'wielder') - even if you don't attack with it.

So the Sage, at least, considers the penalties to apply simply for wielding two weapons, not necessarily for getting an extra attack.

... for whatever that's worth

-Hyp.

-Hyp.

 

[Ranger REG]

To be brutally honest, I don't think I want a "peripheral" answer.

 

[Emongnome]

Miniatures Handbook, pg 35, Double Hit feat:

"When making an attack of opportunity, you may make an attack with your off hand against the same target at the same time. You must decide before your first attack roll whether you want to use your off hand. If you do, both attacks take the standard penalties for fighting with two weapons"

For those concerned about the letter of the rules, seems plain that 1) You can normally only make 1 AoO attack with only one weapon and 2) When making only a single AoO attack, you do not incur TWF penalties. Seems clear enough to me, but I'd be interested in hearing any other interpretations.

 

[Hypersmurf]

For those concerned about the letter of the rules, seems plain that 1) You can normally only make 1 AoO attack with only one weapon...

That's not under dispute...

... and 2) When making only a single AoO attack, you do not incur TWF penalties.

... that is, and the text of the Double Hit feat sheds no new light on the situation.

-Hyp.

 

[Emongnome]

Then let's look at this more closely.

"You must decide before your first attack roll whether you want to use your off hand. If you do, both attacks take the standard penalties for fighting with two weapons."

Double hit gives a character the option to use both attacks when making an AoO. If the penalties exist no matter if you make one or two attacks, they why offer the choice at all? Only when you make "both attacks" does it mention taking the penalties for two weapon fighting. If making a single attack without the penalty is a side benefit of the feat, it would be clearly mentioned as such. I just don't see where the ambiguity is in the feat description.