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D&D 5E Twitch Breach and huge data dump with some purporting CR earned $9 million over three years

darjr

I crit!
And boardgames. And the books that they've published (Tal'dorei Campaign Guide, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, their next Tal'dorei book).

Suffice it to say, they're making a lot of money off of Critical Role.
Certainly there are other revenue sources, possibly lucrative. But we can only guess. Although I’d guess your maybe right.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
And boardgames. And the books that they've published (Tal'dorei Campaign Guide, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, their next Tal'dorei book).

Suffice it to say, they're making a lot of money off of Critical Role.

I'm sure they make a fair amount of money from CR. But 31 employees is a lot of folks. I believe the players all still work their main VA jobs, so it's not like this revenue is enough to retire on.
 

Damn, Ed Greenwood should get on twitch or better yet YouTube live screaming as twitch sucks as an app.
Youtube's pretty awful for discovering new livestreams, which is why Twitch is still slightly ahead of that for folks wanting to stream

Youtube's got the superior player especially now they have clips, but its easier to be discovered on Twitch. Until Youtube does something about that, Twitch'll be just ahead in the eyes of streamers
 

TheSword

Legend
It should be taken down. Why host these images here at ENWorld?
Im all for a right of privacy however, the streamers who’s details are leaked make money from public donations and advertising revenues funded by their viewers. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to know how much they are getting paid for that.

When you find out someone is getting hundreds of thousands of dollars for that show you love maybe that would cause a person to consider whether the size of extra donations is appropriate.

If we found out how much a film star was paid for a movie, we wouldn’t call it sleazy. These are very public figures making a hell of a lot of money from their viewers. I’d say that the story is in the public interest, and as it’s been picked up by all the major papers in the Uk, I’d say it’s hard to argue it’s not news.
 

Abstruse

Legend
Even if the numbers are accurate (there are still questions about that), it represents revenue from three sources and three sources only: Bits, Subs, and Ad revenue. We also don't know if that's what the streamer actually gets or if it's before Amazon/Twitch take their share - streamers get $0.01 per bit but Amazon charges a 25-40% fee to purchase them, ad revenue is based on a CPM (I believe it's $0.05 per 1000 views), and Amazon takes 50% of subscription money for Affiliates and between 30-50% for partners (a streamer has to negotiate to get the 60/40 or 70/30 split).

And even if those numbers are accurate, they're still only one part of total revenue. It would not count licensing deals like the one with WizKids for the Critical Role miniatures, merchandising for the t-shirts and other CR merch, royalties/licensing revenue from the Tal'dorei sourcebooks, crowdfunding for the various projects like the Amazon animated series, sponsorship deals with Dwarven Forge and Carolina Tables and any of the other companies, revenue from Darrington Press their game publishing arm, etc. It also would not include expenses the company incurs like studio rental, salaries for staff, payment to freelancers/contractors, bills for things like power and internet, tax obligations, printing and shipping of games for Darrington Press, etc.

So basically even if the numbers are accurate and even if they're for revenue and not some other number associated with the account and even if they're representative of actual revenue, we still have no idea how much Critical Role actually makes. Nor of any other streamer on the list.
 

Ulorian

Explorer
I'm honestly not clear on the reason people care about this. I would like to be educated. If Critical Role make $X how does that affect you/us/the industry/life and society in general?
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I'm honestly not clear on the reason people care about this. I would like to be educated. If Critical Role make $X how does that affect you/us/the industry/life and society in general?

shrug

Why do people care about the box office of films? Or athlete’s salaries? Or why Bob is making such a racket in his garage every night?

The same reason they play bards. Because people suck.

…and because they’re nosy.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
It should be taken down. Why host these images here at ENWorld?

Mod Note:
No, you didn't do anything wrong - this is Mod Voice to make it clear, and hold off further argument on the point.

After some discussion, it was noted that these images are pretty much everywhere gamers are on the web already. Taking them down would be performative, and not actually stop anyone from seeing them. At this point it is a choice between covering them as news, or removing them as a gesture without much impact, and the choice was made to cover the news of the day.

Please feel free to drop a line to Morrus if you feel it is important, but we won't have argument about it in-thread.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Good on them! I'm kind of happy they are in the #1 spot, because I know they literally started from scratch and worked their way up the hard way, and they are still really decent folk. I doubt 9m even goes as far as it seems, since it's split across 3 years, they have a whole team of people to pay, insure, etc. And they don't seem like the kind of people to skimp on pay or benefits (within reason).
Yeah at most they’re getting about 70k each per year, from what I read earlier. Which is solid, especially as one income stream.
 



Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Im all for a right of privacy however, the streamers who’s details are leaked make money from public donations and advertising revenues funded by their viewers. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to know how much they are getting paid for that.

Was going to reply but Mod note so nevermind.
 

dave2008

Legend
Yeah. Using leaks like this to discuss the earnings of private businesses... is pretty sleazy. I mean, I doubt few here would be happy if their own financial information was made available on the internet.
Honestly I don't know why people get so cagey about the money they make. I've always been completely open about that stuff (even when my contract said I couldn't disclose my pay to other employees!). I already know some people don't earn enough and some earn to much, everything else is just to what degree.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Honestly I don't know why people get so cagey about the money they make.

I'm glad you don't know. It means you have likely not experienced the social pressures and conflicts that can come from others knowing how much you do, or do not, earn.

You live in a world in which many, many people judge your personal worth and character, one way or another, based on how much money you make.
 

dave2008

Legend
I'm glad you don't know. It means you have likely not experienced the social pressures and conflicts that can come from others knowing how much you do, or do not, earn.

You live in a world in which many, many people judge your personal worth and character, one way or another, based on how much money you make.
I live in that world too. I guess I don't generally judge others by what they earn, nor does the judgement of others really bother me that much (at least in terms of what I earn - though I am generally a bit detached as well).

I do want to clarify that I completely understand that what does and doesn't bother me is a me issue. I don't judge people for being skittish about what they or others earn, I just don't truly understand it in a way the makes logical or emotional sense to me.
 

You live in a world in which many, many people judge your personal worth and character, one way or another, based on how much money you make.
I understand what you are saying. But those are "bad things". The only ones I'm aware of that benefit from keeping salaries (different than personal wealth) private are those at the top. i.e. businesses benefit if employees don't know what other employees make.

I'm not an anti-business or anti-wealth type of person, ... guess I can't continue as I think I'm going into a forbidden topic.

Let just say, we shouldn't let social pressures embarrass or define us. Nor is it beneficial to fair wages or even RPG authors making a living wage.
 

dave2008

Legend
I understand what you are saying. But those are "bad things". The only ones I'm aware of that benefit from keeping salaries (different than personal wealth) private are those at the top. i.e. businesses benefit if employees don't know what other employees make.

I'm not an anti-business or anti-wealth type of person, ... guess I can't continue as I think I'm going into a forbidden topic.

Let just say, we shouldn't let social pressures embarrass or define us. Nor is it beneficial to fair wages or even RPG authors making a living wage.
That is a good point, it was my first "real" job out college that had a clause that I couldn't disclose my salary - and that just rubbed me the wrong way. My whole outlook on this issue may have been colored by that one event.
 

Ulorian

Explorer
I'm glad you don't know. It means you have likely not experienced the social pressures and conflicts that can come from others knowing how much you do, or do not, earn.

You live in a world in which many, many people judge your personal worth and character, one way or another, based on how much money you make.
Why would anyone worry about how 'many, many people' judge their 'worth and character'? This is a cage that many of us build for ourselves: being beholden to what others think.
 


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