Two 10th level Spell Slots at 20th level???

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If you want 10th level spells (and spell slots), check out Arcana Evolved.

If you'd continue the spell level progression, you indeed would end up with 10th level spells (available at 19th level for Clerics, Druids and Wizards, and at 20th level for Sorceror*). But for whatever specific reason, the D&D designers decided that 10 levels (0-9) of spells would be sufficient. I don't know if the FR story has a lot to do with it (it at least explains why there are no higher level spells).

*) Note that Bards would probably also have to go up to at least 7th, maybe 8th level spells (their progression is somewhat llike "spellevel x 3 - 1 = min. caster level required for spell level"), and Rangers and Paladins would have to go up to 5th level spells.

 

[wedgeski]

She was then reborn as Mystra, the new goddess of magic, and her very first action was to eradicate magic of level 10+ from existance. Since then, the only way of going beyond 9th is epic magic.

Not being a student of FR lore, I didn't know this, and it's pretty damn cool.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In 3.0e (forgotten realms book) there was the nifty idea of allowing 1 extra spell slot of 10th and higher levels, which could hold metamagicked versions of high level spells. With the metamagic stacking which was allowed in 3.0e you could have an empowered, empowered, quickened meteorstorm as a 17th level spell (for a silly example), or a still, silent shapechange as an 11th level spell slot.

 

[howandwhy99]

I agree with the cool metamagic examples, but really I'm still wondering about how this will effect the game.

Casters at 19+ level will be even more powerful right? Is it too much compared to the other classes? It's just the progressions all of a sudden stop. I understand it's a traditional D&D aspect, but I have no problem breaking tradition in D20.

 

[reanjr]

Is the Wizard missing two spell slots for 10th level spells at 20th level? I mean, if I were to assume spell levels just kept going up, would these overpower spellcasting classes? 19-20th levels seem to have no other benefit given to Wizards, Sorcerers, or Clerics.

They have the exact progression you would expect from mathematical analysis if you are to preclude 10th level spells and replace them with extra 9th and 8th level slots. If adding in 10th level spells, just remove the extra slots:

        8    9    10
15th    1    -    -
16th    2    -    -
17th    2    1    -
18th    3    2    -
19th    3    2    1
20th    3    3    2

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In 3.0e (forgotten realms book) there was the nifty idea of allowing 1 extra spell slot of 10th and higher levels, which could hold metamagicked versions of high level spells. With the metamagic stacking which was allowed in 3.0e you could have an empowered, empowered, quickened meteorstorm as a 17th level spell (for a silly example), or a still, silent shapechange as an 11th level spell slot.

That was the epic "beta" rules, though. You can do that with the current epic rules, too - there's a feat for it. Tose old epic rules didn't allow you more than 20 HD if I remember this correctly.

 

[howandwhy99]

They have the exact progression you would expect from mathematical analysis if you are to preclude 10th level spells and replace them with extra 9th and 8th level slots. If adding in 10th level spells, just remove the extra slots:
snip

Thanks reanjr. I hadn't realized the lists were merged.

 

[Nyaricus]

Once upon a time, there were twelve levels of magic. Level 10 and 11 were the truly awesome things like "cut off a mountaintop, turn it around to build a city on it and let it float." Then Karsus - one of the most powerful wizards ever to be - created a spell called Karsus' Avatar, the only 12th-level spell ever created. It is said that it took a year only to create the material components for it.

This spell would shove a deity of your choice from his or her throne and put you on it. Karsus cast the spell and supplanted Mystryl - the goddess of magic - with it. And immediately saw his error, for he was unable to hold the Weave together. It began to unravel, with disastrous effects for magic. Mystryl sacrificed herself to save the Weave, and for a while, all magic ceased to work in the Realms (remember those flying cities? That day marked the downfall of Netheril - literally).

She was then reborn as Mystra, the new goddess of magic, and her very first action was to eradicate magic of level 10+ from existance. Since then, the only way of going beyond 9th is epic magic.


This was changed long before 3e came (though the epic spell part is new, obviously).

I knew the basic outline of that story, but had never heard the whole yarn. Thanks for that Kae'Yoss

In any case, in my games I've been seriously considering adding 10th level spells for almost a year now. I guess I'll just have to see what happens \

cheers,
--N

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I knew the basic outline of that story, but had never heard the whole yarn. Thanks for that Kae'Yoss

That's not even the whole yarn. There's the part that mystra deleted the knowledge of this magic from everyone's mind and sent all materials (scrolls and the like) of it beyond the edge of the multiverse or something.

There's the part about Karsus making a rushed decision about his spell when Netheril's most loved "folk hero", Ioulaum, vanished.

Or the part that although Karsus was one of the most powerful arcanists ever, he was a feeble-minded idiot with the attention span of a 4-year-old, who called his most trusted advisor "his special friend", a post that could last 5 minutes. He cast his Avatar spell to get more power to save the Empire from "them". (The last part was probably his most lucid thought, since "they" were they Phaerimm, who were out to destroy the Netherese.) His godhood was just long enough for him to realize that he has just doomed his empire, including the few people who actually cared about him (as opposed to the countless sycophants), killed the goddess he loved, and that he was far too incompetent to hold the Weave together. I imagine that those were not the nicest of things to ponder in your last moments of life (probably the reason why he became a Vestige, at least according to the Tome of Magic).