Two-handed-Two-weapon fighting Munchkinism

[Pax]

Could you wield a greatsword 2 handed, assess two weapon fighting penalties and get an extra kick as your "off hand attack"?

With the right feats, sort of.

Sword and Fist has a feat, "Monkey Grip" which lets you use (at a penalty) two-handed weapons in a single hand.

Theoretically, by taking hugely cumulative penalties, the feats Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, and Monkey Grip could allow you to wield not one, but TWO greatswords.

Some of my more munchkin-y "hmm, what'd happen if I did X" ideas center around those three feats, a pair of Keen falchions of speed, Imp2-Weapon, and the ImpCrit(Falchion) feat, among others. Threat range 12-20, 3 off-hand attacks and up to 5 primary-hand attacks, and semidecent damage to start with. VERY cheesy. 8) Also perfectly legal, unless I missed something huge in the errata.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: Two-handed-Two-weapon fighting Munchkinism

VERY cheesy. Also perfectly legal, unless I missed something huge in the errata.

Your right on both accounts. Very Cheesy, technically allowed.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Why choose, combine them!

Turn into a Girillion with Monkey Grip, , and weild FOUR great swords. Imagine Multi Weapon Rend...

 

[Victim]

Attempting to use a pair of 2 handed weapons with Monkey Grip seems ratehr ineffective to me.

First of all, you lose one of the major benefits of 2 handers - the 1.5 STR mod to damage. Even with something as low as an 18 STR (assuming magical buffs and such), the bonus damage from the extra .5 STR mod is almost the same as the difference between longsword and greatsword damage. In fact, if you assume that the fighter might use an exotic weapon like a bastard sword, then the bonus STR damage from 2 hander style is greater than difference in base damage.

Also, the to hit penalties are huge. Using 2 Greatswords means that you're definitely not using a light weapon, so you eat the full -4/-4 hit penalties. And Monkey gripping 2 weapons would result in 2 Monkey grip penalties. So you get lots of attacks with big weapons. However, swinging at -8 will really mess you up. Power Attack would be more helpful.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, Girallons are size Large. They can weild Greatswords in one hand without Monkey Grip.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

HUGE great swords!!! Keep helping me, I've got my next character concept.

 

[Pax]

Attempting to use a pair of 2 handed weapons with Monkey Grip seems ratehr ineffective to me.

First of all, you lose one of the major benefits of 2 handers - the 1.5 STR mod to damage. Even with something as low as an 18 STR (assuming magical buffs and such), the bonus damage from the extra .5 STR mod is almost the same as the difference between longsword and greatsword damage. In fact, if you assume that the fighter might use an exotic weapon like a bastard sword, then the bonus STR damage from 2 hander style is greater than difference in base damage.

Also, the to hit penalties are huge. Using 2 Greatswords means that you're definitely not using a light weapon, so you eat the full -4/-4 hit penalties. And Monkey gripping 2 weapons would result in 2 Monkey grip penalties. So you get lots of attacks with big weapons. However, swinging at -8 will really mess you up. Power Attack would be more helpful.

I never said it was a GREAT idea to wield two greatswords.

The twin-falchion is mainly because of the huge threat range, relative to the two-die damage code. A 12-20 net threat range, with a 2d4 base code, can produce an astonishingly intimidating number of dice being rolled (granted they're only d4's, but ...).

And power attack would make each hit more valuable, but with further boosts to the weapons (make them out of magickally treated Gold or Platinum,making them "Heavy" weapons, thus requiring an exotic weapon proficiency TOO, but upping them to 2d6 damage -- greatswors with Falchion threat ranges; add one or more elmental-damage-add features; MAKE THEM VORPAL), the sheer number of attacks gained through the multiplebig-toys could be more valuable.

Besides, the concept is MAINLY for the OOC intimidation feature. Picture a DM seeing a PC calmly wielding TWO 2H weapons, one in each hand, for the first time. Heh.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: True munchkinism....

Just reread the feat.

I don't need to. I've read it many times already. Reading it once more won't change my opinion.

The feat says "You can use one melee weapon that is one size larger than you in one hand. "

That's right. One melee weapon.

Then later is states: This feat can be taken multiple times, each with a different weapon. To me this means that the feat only applies to a single weapon type. (i.e. Greatsword or Greataxe), just like exotic weapon profenicy does.

I don't fully see how that's valid. I believe the intent of the feat limits you to wielding one oversized weapon at a time.

I can't say with 100% certainty that I'm right, since I'm just going by what I believe is the intent of the feat. Ah well. I'll just shoot of an email to the Sage or somethin'.

 

[Garmorn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: True munchkinism....

I don't need to. I've read it many times already. Reading it once more won't change my opinion.



That's right. One melee weapon.



I don't fully see how that's valid. I believe the intent of the feat limits you to wielding one oversized weapon at a time.

I can't say with 100% certainty that I'm right, since I'm just going by what I believe is the intent of the feat. Ah well. I'll just shoot of an email to the Sage or somethin'.

My apologies for the poorly word "read the feat" statement. I am not always very good at putting my thoughts on paper.

You and I have interpted the same passage diffirently and I would be intrested in what the Sage or Caliban thinks on this.

I am lucking that no one in my group has even looked at monkey grip, so I have not had to hassle with this.

 

[Mistwell]

I always believed the "one" weapon in monkeygrip meant "one particular kind of weapon", such as "Greatsword" as opposed to "a single weapon". It uses the same wording as all the other "one particular kind of weapon" feats. It would also be consistent with weapon feats in general. For example, weapon focus, weapon specialization, and improved critical work with any number of those particular weapons that are in your hands (1 or 2, or if you have more than 2 arms, maybe even more).

 

[Metalsmith]

Armor Spikes

No kicking with Bladed Feet. Shoulder check him.

Even Better:
Ambidex
2-Weapon Fighing
Large Steel Sheild
Bastard Sword
Armor Spikes
Improved 2 weapon fighting.

Gain the AC Bonus for using a shield and the Choppy-ness of extra attacks.

Metalsmith