Two hander style gets the axe shaft!

[Celtavian]

Re

One more reason why 2 hander is still better than 2 weapon style.

I plan on obtaining cleave and sunder as feats. Let's just say you're fighting a 2 weapon fighter and you happen to have the sunder feat. Most likely you're going to be fighting a no weapon fighter very soon...)

I personally feel they have a great balance right now whether you're a 2 weapon or 2 handed weapon fighter. You really can't go too wrong choosing either way except the 2 weapon fighter will do more damage most levels prior to 10 or so.

 

[Orco42]

Another plus for THF is getting through damage reduction.

 

[Greybar]

The example we use in our group is a 20th+ level half-orc fighter, with a 34 Str, with weapon focus and weapon specialization ...

I think this speaks for itself. [sigh]

John

 

[Astlin]

The great equalizer between two handed weapons and two weapon fighting is springing attack. If the two handed fighter has spinging attack and the same number of hps he will win 9 out of 10 times.

I have seen a lot of "great equilizers" for two handed weapon fighting, but I have yet to see one for two-weapon fighting.

The only argument for TWF that I have seen with any merit is sneak attack. A Rogue getting sneak attacks with both weapons just does not happen often enough to justify blowing all of those feats.

TWF blows.

Role-playing reasons for taking the feats is all well and good. In the end though, if you can't hold a candle to the PA/Cleave fighter next to you then it makes for a frustrating game. Yes, if TWF was better then you would have more Drow out there with twin scimitars. But so what?

I do find it odd that one of the most popular characters in any of the DnD books is imposible to duplicate using the rules and still be effective. Would you play a male Drow using two medium weapons in 3E?

Astlin

note: No I am not a Drist fan.

 

[Crothian]

I have seen a lot of "great equilizers" for two handed weapon fighting, but I have yet to see one for two-weapon fighting.

The only argument for TWF that I have seen with any merit is sneak attack. A Rogue getting sneak attacks with both weapons just does not happen often enough to justify blowing all of those feats.

TWF blows.

Or two weapons that have flaming or other types of elemental damage die. Or multiple lesser opponents. Or any of the feats that allow your off hand to be used defensively. Or trying to disarm an opponent.

 

[kreynolds]

Or two weapons that have flaming or other types of elemental damage die. Or multiple lesser opponents. Or any of the feats that allow your off hand to be used defensively. Or trying to disarm an opponent.

Or dancing the jig.

 

[Astlin]

Or two weapons that have flaming or other types of elemental damage die. Or multiple lesser opponents. Or any of the feats that allow your off hand to be used defensively. Or trying to disarm an opponent.

1) Two +1 swords (one flaming and one shock) ~16000gp. One +1 Flaming, Shock Two-hander ~18000gp. The two hander can be used with an attack action (charge, spring attack, AoE, ...), the two weapons are only fully effective with a full attack action.

2) PA and Cleave do a MUCH better job of mowing down lesser opponents. I have seen it in action on many occasions.

3) More feats? A two-weapon fighter is already 2 feats in the hole!
You want defense? Why not just pick up a shield and Monkey Grip, or a bastard sword(EWP) and a shield? Those will only costs you one feat and add a lot of versatility.

4) a) Larger weapon gets a +4 bonus per difference in size category.
b) Two hander gets an additional +4 bonus.
c) A dissarm provokes an AoO.
d) If you fail, your opponent may react immediatly and attempt to dissarm you using the same modifiers.
This is not a good idea even for the guy that has a med and a small weapon, let alone the one with two small weapons.


Still waiting.

Astlin

 

[Astlin]

Or dancing the jig.

Ok, I will give you this one.



Astlin

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

1) Two +1 swords (one flaming and one shock) ~16000gp. One +1 Flaming, Shock Two-hander ~18000gp. The two hander can be used with an attack action (charge, spring attack, AoE, ...), the two weapons are only fully effective with a full attack action.

2) PA and Cleave do a MUCH better job of mowing down lesser opponents. I have seen it in action on many occasions.

3) More feats? A two-weapon fighter is already 2 feats in the hole!
You want defense? Why not just pick up a shield and Monkey Grip, or a bastard sword(EWP) and a shield? Those will only costs you one feat and add a lot of versatility.

4) a) Larger weapon gets a +4 bonus per difference in size category.
b) Two hander gets an additional +4 bonus.
c) A dissarm provokes an AoO.
d) If you fail, your opponent may react immediatly and attempt to dissarm you using the same modifiers.
This is not a good idea even for the guy that has a med and a small weapon, let alone the one with two small weapons.


Still waiting.

Astlin

The parts about disarming and feats are quite true.

Of course off hand parry and similar abilities give you a great deal of defense, ptentially more than even a magic shield.

As far as a rouge not getting a full attack action of sneak attacks often enough, I completely agree with you. IF you don't make it happen enough. Now talk to my friend Lenny lightfingers, er, I mean Brother Sylus, right..., and he might say differently. Of course he has constant support from or front line fighters, and my spellcaster, who is more than generous with the Haste and Improved Invivibility spells. He averages as much damage as our Barbarian/Dragon Desciple, who I have described earlier. Feats, spells, and tactics only work early and often if you have the group discapline to make it happen.

 

[Heronmarkblade]

My $.02

Just in case it hasnt been complicated enough, heres the homebrew feats i came up with...

There are several (ok... 15) others, inspired by the 2nd edition Fighters handbook, AND the fact that the "2 weapons vs. 2-handers" debate has come to the forefront in my campaign when the bard/ranger SERIOUSLY outperformed the single-class barbarian AND fighter.... so heres what i came up with...

Two-Handed Style Focus [General, Fighter]
You are skilled in the use of two handed weapons.
Prereq: BAB +4, Weapon focus in a two-handed weapon (bastard sword does NOT count)
Benefit: When using a two-handed weapon, the character applies double her strength modifier to damage.

Two-Handed style Specialization [Fighter]
Your mastery of the techniques of two-handed weapons makes your blows mightier.
Prereq: BAB 6+, Two-Handed Style Focus
Benefit: When using a two-handed Weapon, the weapon's critical multiplier and range are increased by one

Two-Handed Style Mastery [Fighter]
Your skill with two handed weapons crushes your foes easily.
Prereq: BAB 12+, Two-Handed Style Specialization, Weapon specialization in two two-handed Weapons
Benefit: Whenever the character rolls a critical threat with a two-handed weapon, it is automatically a critical hit


There, lets see how much THAT stirs up.

*dives for cover*