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Two hander style gets the axe shaft!

kreynolds said:


Of course it is.



To quote my hero, Gromm...


...I'll beat you to death with your own arm.

:p

Heh.
I need that feat for a player in my campaign, mind if I use it?

He can use it so we don't have to heat about how he's "out of trump cards" after his once spell doesn't work against something.

Or when he bitches because enemies make a save, or he misses, or really anything.

Best feat ever.
 

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I'll have to chime in on the "I think the 2-H and dual wield balance is fine the way it is" crowd.

2 handed weapons have a lot of benefits. Many of them have already been listed. A few haven't. For instance, two handed weapons do much more damage than dual wielders on AoOs, get more damage from haste (since the partial action only allows a standard attack and two handed weapons get more damage from a single hit--still haste is extremely valuable for dual wielders since the partial charge+full attack combo enables them to almost always get their iterative and off-hand attacks). Two handed weapons are also less vulnerable to disarm and sunder attempts than most dual wielding schemes.

That being said, it is possible to create some very effective dual wielding characters. A character who uses Shield expert and dual wields a bastard sword and Shield of Bashing gets the AC of sword and shield style and the damage of a two weapon fighter. A character who dual wields a two handed weapon and armor spikes has a higher potential damage output than any other character in the game. The various dual wielding feats also combine very nicely with sneak attack enabling rogues to dish out incredible amounts of damage.

Also, because of the way magic weapons are priced (equivalent bonus squared x2), a pair of weapons one plus lower are usually cheaper than a single weapon. (if x is the equivalent plus of a dual wielder's weapon, the following statement demonstrates this: (x+1)^2=x^2+2x+2>2x^2 as long as x<5). Consequently, most characters will be choosing between a +1 Flaming Holy greatsword or a +1 Shock, Flaming/+1 Holy double sword. 2 handed weapon has 3d6 of extra damage and the double weapon (or pair of weapons) has 4d6 of extra damage.
 

Jondor_Battlehammer said:
Oops, Missed one. I don't see many people using two picks, though.

Of course, that is quite possibly the first character released to the public under 3E rules... see Eric's archives.
 

Why do you think two-handed weapons aren't powerful enough?


Orc Fighter 10
Str: 22
Feats: Exotic Weapon: (Heavy Merculian Greatsword), Weapon Focus: Heavy Merculian Greatsword), Weapon Specialization(Heavy Merculian Greatsword), Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved crit(Heavy Merculian Greatsword), Power Crit (Heavy Merculian Greatsword), Power Lunge
Equipment: Platnium Sword (Merculian/Greatsword), Rhino Hide armor

Melee +17/+12
Damage: 4d8 + 11 (19-20/4x)

Power lunging: 4d8 + 17 (19-20/4x)

Charging: (Previous+2) +1 multiplier damage

Maximum Charging damage with a powerlunge, Power attack, and declared power critical: 61 x 5 = 305 damage




Heh, Bet your players would fear an orcish leader that looked like this guy.
 
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A bit more info...

Wow, this post took off like mad.

First, kreynolds. Nice feat. How long have you been saving that one to drop on some unsuspecting lurker??? I'm honored.

Try this one on for size:

GET A NAME [GENERAL]
Your name causes confusion to others on the boards.
Benefit: You can choose to create a screen name that isn't a generic reference to your real name.
Normal: Without this feat, people confuse your comments with those of a former employee of WOTC, and think something relevant is being said. When in fact...
Special: Without this feat, moderators may routinely edit your posts to include references to the fact that you're not "THE" person, who happens to have the same name.


:D

Allright, regarding my comments at the top of this thread. The example we use in our group is a 20th+ level half-orc fighter, with a 34 Str, with weapon focus and weapon specialization. He can choose to use two Shortswords or a Greatsword. Base damage and crit range is identical. (I'm not sure what a Herculian Greatsword is, but I know I wouldn't want to get hit by it). The weapon specialization on both hands is pretty much offset by the -2 to hit, until higher levels.

Very good, relevant points were made by too many to site individually.
1) To use two weapons, you must invest significantly more feats.
2) These feats are of benefit to ONLY the two weapon style.
3) Many combat feats benefit both styles (Cleave, Power Attack, etc.)
4) Two weapon style will lag, just slightly behind two hander style, particularly in the middle levels (say around 6th - 12th. But, once the magic starts ROLLING in at higher levels, it's no problem equipping yourself with a couple of badass weapons.
5) Whirlwind Attack, Attack of Opportunity, Spring Attack, and Charge Actions (including attendent feats) ARE better for the two hander style, particularly until Epic. These are a good diferentiator in the mid to high levels.

Here is where the challenge comes in:
Rokugan Feat (I apologize I don't have it to reference): allows full strength bonus in both hands.
Epic Feat: lose the -2 to hit and gain a full complement of attack actions in both hands.
Epic Feat: Grants a "rend" like attack if you hit with each of your two weapons for weapon damage + 1.5xStr (ouch), in addition to all the rest of the damage you do.
Epic Feat: "pounce" charging feat that allows you to make a full attack action on a charge, on the first round of combat. Not completely giving away the farm, but certainly giving up some of the key benefit.

So, the point is, although the damage is close up to around 12th level, what other feats would you suggest for two hander stylers, that would benefit only two hander stylers, to make up for the difference.

I think Power Lunge is a good mid-level example of this kind of feat.

A feat that would enhance attacks of opportunity would also be more beneficial to two-handers. Perhaps something relating to "reach" for two-hander weapons. This might also help to mitigate the over-powered spiked chain.

There have been a few other really good suggestions. Anyone else?
 

Re: A bit more info...

ashockney said:
So, the point is, although the damage is close up to around 12th level, what other feats would you suggest for two hander stylers, that would benefit only two hander stylers, to make up for the difference.

I think Power Lunge is a good mid-level example of this kind of feat.

Power Critical is better for 2 handed than it is for two weapon.
 

Re: A bit more info...

ashockney said:
First, kreynolds. Nice feat.

Thanks. I figured you might like it. ;)

ashockney said:
How long have you been saving that one to drop on some unsuspecting lurker???

I made it up in about 60 seconds just for you. :p

ashockney said:
I'm honored.

Well...you should be. :D

ashockney said:
Try this one on for size:

GET A NAME [GENERAL]
Your name causes confusion to others on the boards.
Benefit: You can choose to create a screen name that isn't a generic reference to your real name.
Normal: Without this feat, people confuse your comments with those of a former employee of WOTC, and think something relevant is being said. When in fact...
Special: Without this feat, moderators may routinely edit your posts to include references to the fact that you're not "THE" person, who happens to have the same name.


:D

Might I suggest this feat for you...

Pay The Frick Attention [General]
By pulling your head out of your arse, you can comprehend the text right in front of you.
Benefit: When you take this feat, you are now fully capable of actually reading someone's signature and/or title beneath their username, allowing you to avoid making a complete ass out of yourself.
Normal: Without this feat, a character has the tendancy to completely miss the signature of another board member which clearly states that they are not the said (former) employee of Wizards of the Coast, as well as miss the clearly stated title directly beneath their username. All characters without this feat have their heads stuck up their arse.
Special: Without this feat, kreynolds may hurt you. Also, you will repeatedly make a complete ass out of yourself until you select this feat. This feat can only be taken upon character creation. If you didn't take it then, you're screwed.

...you might find it useful. :D
 
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