Two quick thoughts about all these new fangled base classes . . .

[Chainsaw Mage]

1. I remember back in 2001, flipping through my shiny new Player's Handbook (I was naive enough to believe that it would last me for years and years to come--ha ha ha!) of what later became rebranded "3.0". I went to rec.games.frp.dnd (brrrrr) and posted some ideas I had for new base classes: Alchemist, Exorcist, and Archer. I got raked over the coals, with dozens of replies that went something like this: "You can't add new base classes, you @#$(*# idiot! You'll wreck the f**king game! Add prestige classes if you want, but NEVER add base classes!"

Heh heh. Those idiots from rec.games.frp.dnd must be pulling out their hair at the roots these days. Heh heh.


2. I also remember back in 2001, talking with some AD&D 1e/2e grognards (of which I was one, I confess) about how the great thing about D&D 3rd edition (heh heh--it wasn't yet rebranded "3.0"--heh heh) was the flexible multi-classing rules, that allowed you to create ANY class concept imaginable by combining the eleven standard classes!

Heh heh. Apparently not. Heh heh. That's why we now have fifty million new base classes. Heh heh.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

There are people who are still convinced you can create any concept by multiclassing the 3E PHB classes together. I'm not one of them, but they do still exist.

 

[atomn]

I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say you can make ANY concept but I think you can come pretty close. One of my favorite things about D&D is coming up with a concept and working with the different classes and PrCs so that it works. Sometimes you do have to make decisions (not get full caster progression, have a class with less skill points than you wanted, etc.), but weighing what really matters to you for your character and working with what you choose is what makes character creation fun for me.

 

[Psion]

1. I remember back in 2001, flipping through my shiny new Player's Handbook (I was naive enough to believe that it would last me for years and years to come--ha ha ha!) of what later became rebranded "3.0". I went to rec.games.frp.dnd (brrrrr) and posted some ideas I had for new base classes: Alchemist, Exorcist, and Archer. I got raked over the coals, with dozens of replies that went something like this: "You can't add new base classes, you @#$(*# idiot! You'll wreck the f**king game! Add prestige classes if you want, but NEVER add base classes!"

Heh heh. Those idiots from rec.games.frp.dnd must be pulling out their hair at the roots these days. Heh heh.


2. I also remember back in 2001, talking with some AD&D 1e/2e grognards (of which I was one, I confess) about how the great thing about D&D 3rd edition (heh heh--it wasn't yet rebranded "3.0"--heh heh) was the flexible multi-classing rules, that allowed you to create ANY class concept imaginable by combining the eleven standard classes!

Heh heh. Apparently not. Heh heh. That's why we now have fifty million new base classes. Heh heh.

Sounds to me like you were spot on.

We don't need a grunge of steenkin' new classes.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Bring them on. So long as they're done well, I wouldn't be overly bothered if a hundred thousand more base classes, feats, spells, magic items, whatever, were created and published.

Yes, it's all about quality not quantity (to some extent) - but if it's both? That's fine by me.

One of my favourite RPG books of 2006, Tome of Magic, introduced three new base classes. I'm glad it did! These already have their definite places in the settings I use, and in some that I will probably be using. Two are PC classes, and one is for NPCs only, in my primary setting.


And all this coming from someone who doesn't just 'collect' RPG books, who in fact looks through them and/or reads reviews and accounts of them very carefully before handing over the cash.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I too like the base classes, but I have also been pleased that Complete Mage and Complete Scounrel didn't add any new. I don't mind new ones, but I want them to be quality. If they've got quality to add, cool. But I think WotC is now figuring out that you can make more mileage out of rehashing the old (ala variants in UA, PHB II, CM) than starting over all the time. I love the new class variant ideas. It's like getting a whole other use out of the favorites. Like going to through out that old bathrobe only to find it's sprouted an even more comfortable new layer of cotton!

 

[Nyaricus]

There are infact, counting the many UA variations that are full classes, in the neighborhood of 75-85 base classes (it's been awhile since I counted, and there have been a few releases since then), of which I allow well over half that number (I think 50 of them, at last count IIRC) for them to use. That number doesn't include any OA class (+ monks), Incarnum, ToM, ToB:Bo9S etc classes. IOWs, most of the 'standard' classes.

As Aus Snow said, so long as they are well done and decently balanced, WotC could publish another hundred of those buggers, and I'd be more than happy to buy the book and tell my players to "have at it!"

In my current game, I have a Gold Dwarf Knight 4, Air Genasi (LA 0) Ranger 4, Earth Genasi (LA 0) Pugilist (homebrew class from ENW) 4, Human Favoured Soul of a death god 4, Sun Elf Rogue (with tailored skill list) 1/UA Enchanter Specialist Wizard 3 and a straight up Lightfoot Halfling Rogue 4.

I like the new classes (not to mention new races, and feat and spells), and they are seeing good use in my games with my players, and that is a Good Thing (tm).

cheers,
--N

 

[Nyaricus]

I too like the base classes, but I have also been pleased that Complete Mage and Complete Scounrel didn't add any new. I don't mind new ones, but I want them to be quality. If they've got quality to add, cool. But I think WotC is now figuring out that you can make more mileage out of rehashing the old (ala variants in UA, PHB II, CM) than starting over all the time. I love the new class variant ideas. It's like getting a whole other use out of the favorites. Like going to through out that old bathrobe only to find it's sprouted an even more comfortable new layer of cotton!

I agree with everything here. I'm glad to see that the second round of Completes didn't feature any new classes, and I'm also happy to see them backtracking and trying to change the original base classes in new ways. Now we have alternate 'packages', racial sub levels, UA varients and of course DM discretion.

For example, the Sun Elf Rogue 1/UA Enchanter Specialist 3 that I mentioned in my previous post had a great backstory, and wanted to take his first level in a class whch gave him lotsa skill points so he could have plenty of social skills, since he came from a diplomatic background - and he was drawn to the rogue. But, the SA, trapfinding and skill list itself didn't work. So, I offered him to trade trapfinding for a d8 HD, his SA for a bonus feat from a list which I would make (he chose a new one from PHBII) and we just made the skill list more appropriate for his aristocratic/diplomatic background - oh, and his Ref save was swapped for a good Will ('tests of will' during debates and such seemed more appropriate)

New base classes, whether homebrewed or published by WotC are a Good Thing (tm). Period.

cheers,
--N

 

[VirgilCaine]

For example, the Sun Elf Rogue 1/UA Enchanter Specialist 3 that I mentioned in my previous post had a great backstory, and wanted to take his first level in a class whch gave him lotsa skill points so he could have plenty of social skills, since he came from a diplomatic background - and he was drawn to the rogue. But, the SA, trapfinding and skill list itself didn't work. So, I offered him to trade trapfinding for a d8 HD, his SA for a bonus feat from a list which I would make (he chose a new one from PHBII) and we just made the skill list more appropriate for his aristocratic/diplomatic background - oh, and his Ref save was swapped for a good Will ('tests of will' during debates and such seemed more appropriate)

You know you just described the Aristocrat NPC class, right?

 

[Celebrim]

The plethora of new base classes shows that WotC isn't snobbish. They'll take money from anyone.

I for one am looking forward to the new base class 'Angsty Swordwielder with Samurrii Eyebrows, Cat Like Grace, and Cool Gothy Clothes' with baited breath. I can't wait to hear some munchkin peer up over the side of the table and tell me how he's got the coolest backstory, his parents were murdered by orcs, and he was raised by a martial arts master who taught him the secrets of killing with his bare hands, simpering good looks, and frustrated sexuality.

I'm sure he's going to tell me how he never could have built his concept out of core classes from the PH.

Whereas I think it has more to do with the fact that WotC has to turn out something to protect thier phony baloney jobs. All the 80 or so bases classes and all the PrC's WotC has printed since the PH could be boiled down into about 3 new classes, a few core class variants, and suitable feats. But, that would take up alot fewer pages which is entirely the point.