Two Weapon Fighting with Greatsword and Armor Spikes?

[Hypersmurf]

Just because it doesn't specifically say "a weapon in your off-hand" doesn't mean you can't use it with TWF.

Only if we infer intent... in which case I look at the way that Str bonus for a two-handed weapon adds up to 1.5x, and for two weapons adds up to 1.5x, and infer that the intent is that someone can't combine a 1.5x with a .5x.

As long as we're inferring, we may as well go all the way!

-Hyp.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't know about the FAQ, but as I recall, the latest offerings in Sage Advice says that you can, with the standard penalties.

 

[Diirk]

Armor spikes don't state that they count as a second weapon wielded in your off-hand; thus, a strict reading would indicate that while you can make an off-hand attack with them, you cannot make an extra off-hand attack with them. You are not two-weapon fighting; you are simply making an off-hand attack, much as if you elected to swing a longsword with your weaker or less-dextrous hand.

Except there isn't really any "handedness" in d&d. If you attack someone with your longsword in your right hand, thats your primary attack. If you instead attack someone with your longsword in your left hand... well thats your primary attack too. An offhand attack is an extra attack made with a weapon other than your primary.

Hypersmurf's interpretation also doesn't disallow making primary attacks with the armour spikes, and then extra offhand attacks with the great sword... and while thats a situation he's probably quite happy with given that it gets around the double dipping problems (1x str damage on primary attacks, 0.5x str on offhand, and greater penalties as offhand isn't light) it seems silly to allow one, but not the other.

Double dipping is prevalent in d&d anyway, so I don't really see the big deal (eg two hand sword + animated shield, TWF with longsword + spiked shield and improved shield bash etc). Armour spikes are just a bit cheaper.

 

[Diirk]

Well never mind the bit on using the armour spikes as primary and the two hander as an offhand actually; another reading of the armour spikes entry suggests that you can't use them at all if you use another offhand weapon, even as your primary attack.

 

[glass]

Like I said, I think you're reading too much into a simple difference in wording.

How else should we judge what the rules are but by examining the wording of the rules?

Except there isn't really any "handedness" in d&d.

Yes, there is. You off-hand is 'your weaker, less dextrous hand, usually your left', and attacks with it are at -4 and half-Strength. I'm sure Hyp will be along soon to give us the exact quote and page no.

If you attack someone with your longsword in your right hand, thats your primary attack. If you instead attack someone with your longsword in your left hand... well thats your primary attack too. An offhand attack is an extra attack made with a weapon other than your primary.

'Primary' and 'secondary' apply to attacks with natural weapons, not longswords.


glass.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except there isn't really any "handedness" in d&d.

Sure there is.

PHB p110: "Your character can be right- or left-handed."

Definition of off-hand, PHB p311: "A character's weaker or less-dexterous hand (usually the left)."

If you attack someone with your longsword in your right hand, that's a regular melee attack. If you instead attack someone with your longsword in your left hand - your weaker or less-dexterous hand - it's an off-hand attack, you take a -4 penalty, and you apply half Str bonus to damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Diirk]

If you attack someone with your longsword in your right hand, that's a regular melee attack. If you instead attack someone with your longsword in your left hand - your weaker or less-dexterous hand - it's an off-hand attack, you take a -4 penalty, and you apply half Str bonus to damage.

Armor spikes don't state that they count as a second weapon wielded in your off-hand

Well thats interesting then: if you go by what the PHB glossary says, and Hyp's earlier comments, then you can make an offhand attack with armour spikes at -4 as per an offhand attack, however the only references to half damage apply only to weapons wielded in your off hand. So looks like armour spikes do 1x damage read that way.

eg PHB Glossary: "In addition, only one-half of a character's Strength bonus may be added to damage dealt with a weapon in the off hand."
or under Damage, page 134: "When you deal damage with a weapon in your offhand, you add only 1/2 your strength bonus"

However personally I feel that when they said you can make offhand attacks with armour spikes they meant in conjunction with two weapon fighting to gain extra attacks. Otherwise why not just use them as regular attacks?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Well thats interesting then: if you go by what the PHB glossary says, and Hyp's earlier comments, then you can make an offhand attack with armour spikes at -4 as per an offhand attack, however the only references to half damage apply only to weapons wielded in your off hand.

Check PHB p8.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Check PHB p8.

-Hyp.

Interesting how often these first few pages are overlooked.

 

[Diirk]

Check PHB p8.

-Hyp.

Which somewhat suggests that offhand attack and attack with weapon in offhand should be treated somewhat synonomously, as the same rule is written with both wordings in seperate sections.