Two Weapon Fighting with Greatsword and Armor Spikes?

[Hypersmurf]

Which somewhat suggests that offhand attack and attack with weapon in offhand should be treated somewhat synonomously, as the same rule is written with both wordings in seperate sections.

It suggests to me that both an off-hand attack and a weapon used in the off-hand should apply half Str bonus to damage.

Being flat-footed and running both deny you your Dex bonus to AC, but that doesn't meant that flat-footed and running are synonymous.

-Hyp.

 

[brianfitz]

The FAQ says yes.

Hyp, what page of the current 3.5 FAQ is that on? I couldn't locate it.

Brian

 

[Jdvn1]

PHB p110: "Your character can be right- or left-handed."

Definition of off-hand, PHB p311: "A character's weaker or less-dexterous hand (usually the left)."

Ambidexterity is impossible? Can you arbitrarily choose to change whether your character is right- or left- handed?

 

[Felnar]

Can you arbitrarily choose to change whether your character is right- or left- handed?

ask your DM

 

[DogBackward]

Just because it doesn't specifically say "a weapon in your off-hand" doesn't mean you can't use it with TWF.

Only if we infer intent... in which case I look at the way that Str bonus for a two-handed weapon adds up to 1.5x, and for two weapons adds up to 1.5x, and infer that the intent is that someone can't combine a 1.5x with a .5x.

As long as we're inferring, we may as well go all the way!

-Hyp.

See, you're not getting the point here. What, exactly, is the definition of an "off-hand weapon" if not "a weapon used with the off-hand"? You have to understand, there is not one person writing the entire book. There are, in fact, several people writing the same book. And differences in exact wording are guaranteed to be found. It's not inferring intent, it's realizing that some people word things differently.

And allowing you to use spikes all over your body for an off-hand attack, which is perfectly logical, reasonable, and as mentioned, directly allowed via the rules, is nowhere near deciding that there should be a random, arbitrary ruling on how much % of your Str you can add to attacks.

Like I said, I think you're reading too much into a simple difference in wording.

How else should we judge what the rules are but by examining the wording of the rules?

I didn't say don't look at the wording, I said don't read too much into it. Especially when said wording is nothing but two different ways to say the exact same thing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ambidexterity is impossible?

I didn't write it. "right- or left-handed" is what the sentence says.

Can you arbitrarily choose to change whether your character is right- or left- handed?

Can you arbitrarily choose to change your height or your eye colour?

Hyp, what page of the current 3.5 FAQ is that on? I couldn't locate it.

p41.

Just how and when can you use armor spikes? If you’re
using two weapons already, can you use armor spikes to
make a second off-hand attack? What if you’re using a
weapon and a shield? Can you use the armor spikes for an
off-hand attack and still get a shield bonus to Armor Class
from the shield? What if you use a two-handed weapon?
Can you wield the weapon in two hands and still make an
off-hand attack with the spikes? What are your options for
using armor spikes in a grapple? Can you use them when
pinned? If you have another light weapon, can you use that
and your armor spikes when grappling?

When you fight with more than one weapon, you gain an
extra attack. (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and greater
Two-Weapon Fighting give you more attacks with the extra
weapon.) Armor spikes are a light weapon that can be used as
the extra weapon.

If you attack only with your armor spikes during your turn
(or use the armor spikes to make an attack of opportunity), you
use them just like a regular weapon. If you use the full attack
action, you can use armor spikes as either a primary light
weapon or as an off-hand light weapon, even if you’re using a
shield or using a two-handed weapon. In these latter two cases,
you’re assumed to be kicking or kneeing your foe with your
armor spikes.

Whenever you use armor spikes as an off-hand weapon,
you suffer all the penalties for attacking with two weapons (see
Table 8–10 in the Player’s Handbook). When using armor
spikes along with a two-handed weapon, it is usually best to
use the two-handed weapon as your primary attack and the
armor spikes as the off-hand weapon. You can use the armor
spikes as the primary weapon and the two-handed weapon as
the off-hand attack, but when you do so, you don’t get the
benefit of using a light weapon in your off hand.

You cannot, however, use your armor spikes to make a
second off-hand attack when you’re already fighting with two
weapons. If you have a weapon in both hands and armor spikes,
you can attack with the weapons in your hands (and not with
the armor spikes) or with one of the weapons in your hands and
the armor spikes (see the description of spiked armor in
Chapter 7 of the Player’s Handbook).

When grappling, you can damage your foe with your spikes
by making a regular grapple check (opposed by your foe’s
check). If you succeed, you deal piercing damage to your foe
(see Table 7–5 in the Player’s Handbook) rather than the
unarmed strike damage you’d normally deal when damaging
your foe with a grapple check. Since you can use armor spikes
as a light weapon, you can simply use them to attack your foe.
You suffer a –4 penalty on your attack roll when attacking with
a light weapon in a grapple (see page 156 in the Player’s
Handbook), but if your foe is bigger or stronger than you, this
might prove a better tactic than trying to deal damage through a
grapple check because there is no opposed roll to make—you
just have to hit your opponent’s Armor Class. You can’t attack
with two weapons when grappling, even when one of those
weapons is armor spikes (see the section on grappling in
Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook).

You can’t attack and damage your foe if he has you pinned.
If you break the pin and avoid being pinned again, you can go
back to attacking your foe. If your attack bonus is high enough
to allow multiple attacks, you might break the pin and then use
your remaining attack to damage your foe. To accomplish this,
you must first use an attack to break the pin. You can break a
pin using the Escape Artist skill, but trying to do so is a
standard action for you; once you use the standard action to
attempt escape, you can’t make any more attacks during your
turn.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What, exactly, is the definition of an "off-hand weapon" if not "a weapon used with the off-hand"?

A weapon used to make an off-hand attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

how can one make an offhand attack when the offhand is not used to make the attack? well normaly they cant. But we know that some weapons break this rule, such as spiked armor. Spiked armor is not wielded in the offhand but can make offhand attacks with it. This is the exception of the rule that one can use twf with something other then a offhand.

srd
"You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa."

Hypersmurf
"What does making an off-hand attack mean? It means -4 on the attack roll, and half Str bonus to damage."

Why would anyone choose to make an offhand attack instead of a normal attack if your not getting an extra attack? If their is no reason then its clear what they really mean. the part that stood out as odd was this.

srd
"You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa."

My guess is that their was a fear that with armor spikes one could wield a long sword in one hand, and a short sword in the other and use spiked armor to basically get 3 attacks with twf. I would never let anyone do that even if it was not in the text, because i see an offhand attack as mierly an extra attack. Is their anyone that would think that because the left hand hold a weapon and armorspikes are primed, that the two weapon fighter should be entitled to two attacks extra attacks rather then on?

So I can understand your concern Hypersmurf. I wonder though... when you think of a greatsword+armor spikes=twf, do you see the greatsword getting stragth+half or just strength?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So I can understand your concern Hypersmurf. I wonder though... when you think of a greatsword+armor spikes=twf, do you see the greatsword getting stragth+half or just strength?

If you allow it, the greatsword get 1.5x Str bonus to damage, 2-for-1 Power Attack, and +4 to disarm and sunder attempts.

So I don't.

-Hyp.

 

[DogBackward]

I don't really see how that works. Are you suddenly not wielding the greatsword in both hands? If you're using a non-light weapon in both hands, you get 1.5x your Str bonus to damage, x2 Power Attack, and +4 to Sunder/Disarm. You're not suddenly holding it with one hand just because you use an extra attack. It's a simple a+b=c deal. You have a two-handed weapon + you're wielding it in two hands = you get all the benefits of doing so.

I thought the random, arbitrary "you can only use a total of 1.5x your Str bonus" thing was only a sarcastic example. I didn't realize you actually wanted to use it.