UA - do bloodline levels count towards feats?
- Thread starter Olive
- Start date
Mouseferatu
Hero
Nope. While it doesn't explicitly mention feats, the description all but says that they don't.
"Class levels of 'bloodline' do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does..."
And then later:
"A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks."
That says to me that you basically gain nothing for the bloodline level except for the abilities actively granted by the bloodline. If it doesn't give BAB, saves, hit points, or skill points, I can't imagine the writers intended for it to grant feats.
"Class levels of 'bloodline' do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does..."
And then later:
"A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks."
That says to me that you basically gain nothing for the bloodline level except for the abilities actively granted by the bloodline. If it doesn't give BAB, saves, hit points, or skill points, I can't imagine the writers intended for it to grant feats.
adienpryde
First Post
Mouseferatu said:
But those are all determaned by your class. Feats are determained buy your character level not class level. May be wrong but just my thoughts. If you have 17 class levels and 3 bloodline levels, you are still a 20th level charcter not 17th.
Deadguy
First Post
adienpryde said:
Yeah, I think I am inclined to agree. Each Bloodline level is real, in the sense that your character is a higher level for earning XP, and get the appropriate Feat and Attribute increases*. What you don't are any class abilities, since there isn't a class associated with that level. Treating any other way would get awkward, since effectively each time you took a 'Bloodline Level' you'd get a new XP chart for feats/ability increases.
Bloodlines as handled here are... odd... by comparison with monster levels and paragon levels. I'm not sure you do earn back what you spend on those blank levels.
* it does make specific reference to skill maximum, whilst specifically noting that you don't get a BAB increase, hit points, skill points or save increases, and no class features. Whilst Feats and Attribute increases fall into a bit of a grey area, I think you ought to treat them in the same fashion as for calculating skill maxima.
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Mouseferatu
Hero
Hmm...
I'm still inclined to say no, but I do see where you guys are coming from.
That seems like something that really ought to have been spelled out, yes? I see a Sage Advice question on the horizon.
I'm still inclined to say no, but I do see where you guys are coming from.
That seems like something that really ought to have been spelled out, yes? I see a Sage Advice question on the horizon.
drnuncheon
Explorer
Since feats are based on character level (and not ECL), and bloodline levels do not increase character level (according to p19), I'd say they don't count for getting feats. They're pretty much a way to 'buy' a level adjustment over the course of a campaign.
J
J
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Olive
Explorer
drnuncheon said:
So why do they increase max skill ranks?
Actually I think you;re right. total feats are a product of HD, and this gais no HD.
Of course, so are max skill ranks, but I might house rule that out. It seems to make no sense in the system and lead to confusion.
Another question:
My 2nd level major bloodline character needs to get a bloodline level before he gets to 3rd proper. So he takes that level, gainign nothing for it, except max skills and possibly feats. When the character goes from lvl2/1bloodline to elvel 3/1 bloodline does he need xp for character level 4 or 3. If the bloodline level doesn't count towards character level it might imply that the character is still only actually level 2 and only needs xp again for level 3?
Deadguy
First Post
I see what you mean, drnuncheon, that little line is wedged in there quite innocuously, isn't it? That ought to influence my answer and yet I still think that that remark doesn't make sense of what is described following. If a Bloodline Level doesn't actually add to the effective character level, how then would one count levels for a Bloodline character? If I have a Major Bloodline, and I take a Bllodline level at 'level 3', but my ECL remains 2, then what level am I really? At what point must I take my next Bloodline level?
I can certainly structure a system whereby I effectively pay some XP at level 12 (and 6 and 3 as appropriate), thus slowing my advancement. But that's not actually 'taking a level' in anything, is it? It would amount to reducing my XP total by 2000 at level 3, a further 5000 at level 6 and a final 11,000 at level 12. But if that's the intent, it doesn't really say it.
Mouse is right, we need an explanation of the designers' actual intent here.
I can certainly structure a system whereby I effectively pay some XP at level 12 (and 6 and 3 as appropriate), thus slowing my advancement. But that's not actually 'taking a level' in anything, is it? It would amount to reducing my XP total by 2000 at level 3, a further 5000 at level 6 and a final 11,000 at level 12. But if that's the intent, it doesn't really say it.
Mouse is right, we need an explanation of the designers' actual intent here.
Deadguy
First Post
And just for reference we are not alone in finding the actual application of the Bloodline rules confusing:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184998
Exact same division of interpretation. Bad WotC! Naughty WotC!
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184998
Exact same division of interpretation. Bad WotC! Naughty WotC!
