Unconscious (no save) ?? Question

[burntgerbil]

I am sure it is covered somewhere in the books, but I cant seem to locate it. how does this particular condition end ?

When Allies wake you ? (Free, minor, move, standard ?)
When you take damage ?
When the condition is magically lifted ?
When You receive healing ?
At the end of the encounter ?


Thanks for your help.

 

[Caliban]

I am sure it is covered somewhere in the books, but I cant seem to locate it. how does this particular condition end ?

When Allies wake you ? (Free, minor, move, standard ?)
When you take damage ?
When the condition is magically lifted ?
When You receive healing ?
At the end of the encounter ?


Thanks for your help.

Depends on what made you unconscious.

If the Sleep spell makes you unconsious, you don't wake up until you make a save.

If the rogues Knockout power makes you unconcious, you become conscious as soon as you take damage or make a save.

If you are unconscious because you are asleep naturally, then it's a listen check, damage, or whatever the DM feels is appropriate.

 

[burntgerbil]

This question is based on the oni's Hypnotic breath power - with the effect

+11 vs will; the target is dazed (save ends) . First failed save : target falls unconscious (no save)

My question is, when does the unconscious wear off, once inflicted ?

 

[Kordeth]

It's an error, there is no such thing as a "no save" power in 4E. They fixed it on the night hag, but looks like they missed it on the oni. It should read (save ends).

 

[burntgerbil]

After finding the 4E errata (a dc 45 perception check) I saw that they did correct the oni's power. I now have the errata page bookmarked.

 

[Dalzig]

It's an error, there is no such thing as a "no save" power in 4E. They fixed it on the night hag, but looks like they missed it on the oni. It should read (save ends).

That's actually incorrect. There are plenty of monsters in the Monster Manual that do no end on a save, but instead end when a certain condition is met. Illithids (Mind Flayers) have one of them.

 

[Kordeth]

That's actually incorrect. There are plenty of monsters in the Monster Manual that do no end on a save, but instead end when a certain condition is met. Illithids (Mind Flayers) have one of them.

I didn't say there are no powers whose duration isn't governed by a saving throw, I said there's no such thing as an explicit (no save) power. Not the same thing.

 

[Dalzig]

I didn't say there are no powers whose duration isn't governed by a saving throw, I said there's no such thing as an explicit (no save) power. Not the same thing.

I put the water in my stomach through the means of swallowing it, but I didn't say that I drank it?

Okay, that's partially lack of sleep, but what exactly is the difference? Stone-Eye Basilisk (MM 26) states "The target is petrified (no save)." That seems to be a pretty "explicit (no save) power."

 

[Kordeth]

I put the water in my stomach through the means of swallowing it, but I didn't say that I drank it?

Saves in 4E are purely a means of measuring duration, and are no longer a universal (or near-universal) means of mitigating the effects of a power. Either a power explicitly requires a save to end its condition or it has some other effect that ends it, in which case you don't need to talk about saving throws at all. "(No save)" is an outdated relic of an earlier version of the 4E rules; a few instances of it weren't caught.

Okay, that's partially lack of sleep, but what exactly is the difference? Stone-Eye Basilisk (MM 26) states "The target is petrified (no save)." That seems to be a pretty "explicit (no save) power."

No, that's one of those errors I was talking about.

 

[Dalzig]

No, that's one of those errors I was talking about.

Ah, okay. I'd always considered that more of a clarification or reminder than an error.

Sort of like Combat Challenge and Divine Challenge state "The target is marked. <Explains what Marked does>." If you read it strictly enough, using those abilities will lead to marked targets taking a -4 to attacks that don't include the marker.

If using very strict reading, this becomes an error. If you're a bit more loose, it becomes clarification or a reminder.

I think a good question to ask would be: If the (no save) was not on entries that is supposed to appear on, being mainly petrification and death, how many people would then give saving throws in error?