Unconscious = "willing"?

[Dingleberry]

Are unconscious creatures considered "willing" with regard to spells that require a "willing" target?

For example, can a teleporting spellcaster bring along an unconscious comrade? Would it make a difference if it was an unconscious enemy?

 

[Stalker0]

hmmm, tough one.

I would say that since some objects can actually get will saves, and an uncounscious person is preety close to an object, then I would go with saying they are not willing.

It brings up an interesting point though, does that mean that when someones unconscious they will accept spells cast on them? I mean, obviously if your going to cast a healing spell there not going to want to save against it, but how about a domination spell or something to that effect?

 

[mikebr99]

I believe this caused quite a debate the last time it came up... But go with unconsious = willing. The other way brings up to many hassles.

Teleport in this manner is a good way to get people out of harm's way. If you have to wait till they regain consiousness... you'll all be dead. And it doesn't matter if they are an opponent, you've beaten his concent out of him, by knocking him unconsious.

But just to muddy the waters a bid... a soul in the great beyond gets a choice whether to accept a raise dead or resurection, but an unconsious person is trapped in his head, so no choice...

 

[Mistwell]

If the target would be willing were they concious, then they are willing when unconcious. If they would be unwilling were they concious, then they are unwilling when unconcious. That is how the rules seem to read as they stand (of course you could house-rule it otherwise), since there is no special rule for concious state, and all kinds of rules that imply a decision while dead, unconcious, or even an inanimate object.

 

[demon_jr]

i always wondered about this myself. i think the answer lies in how the DM for your campaign will interpret it.

this offers more questions however.

does an unconscious character still get will saves? will they automatically fail their save if you cast "charm person" on them?

personally, i would go with unconscious = willing. i think part of will saves is making a conscious effort to resist. that being the case, if you are unconscious, i would say that a "charm person" would automatically work.

however i can also find it very plausible that will saves are more of a persons "innate" resistance, similar to how your heart still beats, even if you are unconsious.

but then, i'm not a DM, and i'm looking at this from a player's point of view, and would love knocking out bad guys, making them lose their will save. but, as is usually pointed out, you have to think that the bad guys could do the exact same thing to you.



however, would you rule unconscious = sleeping?

if that is the case, it may be good to catch an NPC sleeping, but what if a PC is caught sleeping? imagine going to sleep and waking up dominated.

 

[Stalker0]

My biggest problem with the unconscious=willing is that then you can start knocking people out then dominating them. Seems a little too easy imho.

However, I think its a reasonable interpretation that makes things simple and clean, so I'm going to go with it.

 

[Trine]

The domination part is pretty easy, but knocking them out? That'd be the more difficult part by far.

 

[kreynolds]

The domination part is pretty easy, but knocking them out? That'd be the more difficult part by far.

A couple of empowered subdual substituted fireballs should do the trick, and you'd probably get multiple victims.

 

[Pax]

Are unconscious creatures considered "willing" with regard to spells that require a "willing" target?

For example, can a teleporting spellcaster bring along an unconscious comrade? Would it make a difference if it was an unconscious enemy?

No.

To be a willing target, you must consciously choose not to resist the spell. Resisting spells is an unconscious, instinctive reflex. With that said, remember that the unconscious person (unconscious from injury, not just fast asleep) retains some degree of awareness of their surroundings. So a friend muttering to their downed companion "hang on, buddy, I'll get you out of here and patched up" ... that would possibly prompt a "willing" state of mind.

Also, IMO, when unconscious, you tend not to resist spells which specify"harmless" (etc) in the Saving Throw line. Things like Cure Light Wounds, for example; the unconscious mind somehow recognises the magicks aren't harmful, and so choose not to resist?

 

[Tar-Edhel]

If the target would be willing were they concious, then they are willing when unconcious. If they would be unwilling were they concious, then they are unwilling when unconcious.

I would go for that interpretation as well.

If not, our paladin would want to knock everyone down so that I may teleport them back to town to face justice.

Seriously, the solution is simple and solves all problems other rulings might cause.

I may allow a circumstance bonus for spells casts on an unconscious target, though.