Fallen Seraph
First Post
Perhaps though a soul could hitch a ride on another animus. Hmm... I wonder if animus is within non-living items, perhaps items that are special/used alot had some animus "rubbed off".
Undead taxonomy
Incenjucar
Legend
I imagine artificial animus or "stolen" animus is possible. Have to have a way to animate objects without making them all "undead statues."
Incenjucar said:
No. No animus means nothing happens _absent outside intervention_. If outside intervention is allowed -- eg wacky rituals to animate death knights, create vampires or liches or whatnot -- then anything goes. It all depends on what you consider these rituals should be allowed to do, and what necrotic energy is capable of.
Incenjucar
Legend
Something purely necrotic-powered wouldn't be undead, it would just be necrotic. More or less the equivalent of a negative energy elemental. :\
That said, you could certainly have an undead creature with those elements from different sources.
The soul of a good paladin tied to the animus of a murderer in the body of a dragon skeleton, or something.
But the soul shouldn't be able to act without access to an animus, or else the animus is redundant, and all you need is some random form of energy.
That said, you could certainly have an undead creature with those elements from different sources.
The soul of a good paladin tied to the animus of a murderer in the body of a dragon skeleton, or something.
But the soul shouldn't be able to act without access to an animus, or else the animus is redundant, and all you need is some random form of energy.
Alisair Longreach
First Post
Hm, undead powered by random energy?
Nuclear skeletons?
Clockwork zombies?
Artificial Intelligence Lich?
Cold Fusion Ghoul?
Diesel Death Knight?
Solar Shadows?
Nuclear skeletons?
Clockwork zombies?
Artificial Intelligence Lich?
Cold Fusion Ghoul?
Diesel Death Knight?
Solar Shadows?
Fallen Seraph
First Post
YAY! Clockwork Zombie, they are such fun.
For Halloween this year I was one
Had a clockwork gear bursting out of my chest, copper support beams crisscrossing my arms, various small gears across my cheeks, and my clothing all covered in blood
For Halloween this year I was one
Had a clockwork gear bursting out of my chest, copper support beams crisscrossing my arms, various small gears across my cheeks, and my clothing all covered in blood 
nem z
First Post
Incenjucar said:
I can definately see a vampire as a creature with body and soul but no animus, hence the need to sustain itself artificially by borrowing some from it's victims and the obsessive need to seek out ways to prompt memories of past emotions, the closest it can come to feeling anything.
A ghost as an actual enemy creature to fight or otherwise interact with should require both an animus and soul, I agree.
I would argue that a soul with neither body nor animus should still be possible, though not as a typical creature per say. Consider the 'spiritual echo' style of a haunting, in which an undead seems to retrace it's final moments (or some other significant event) over and over again, often too caught up in it's own memories to acknowledge changes in the surroundings or the presence of others. Just because this type of undead doesn't actually -do- anything doesn't mean it's harmless, however. Such an encounter could quite likely involve various damaging or psychological aura effects, compulsive enchantments to force observers to play along, and even illusionary effects strong enough to pull observers into the scene as the undead experiences it or cause psychosomatic injuries.
So, my taxonomy would be as follows:
BSA = corporeal intelligent emotional undead (Living Being)
~~~~~~~~~~
BS = corporeal intelligent hollow undead (Vampire)
BA = corporeal mindless emotional undead (Zombie)
AS = incorporeal intelligent emotional undead (Ghost)
A = incorporeal mindless emotional undead (Shadow)
S = incorporeal intelligent hollow undead (Presence)
~~~~~~~~~~
B = corporeal mindless hollow dead (Corpse)
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Some undead *are* more or less equivalent for a negative energy elemental.
That doesn't make the animus redundant. It makes it one kind of energy (positive energy, perhaps?). Different kinds of energy could entirely change what a creature is.
Hmmm,
I'm not an English major so I could be wrong here but it really looks like a zombie, for example, may or may not have animus depending on the specific definition one uses and how you fluff your zombies. I could see the zombie having the italicized definition of animus very easily. They are often described as being hostile to living beings. This definition of a zombie’s attitude towards the living seems to fit the bolded definition in a limited, or as another put it, ‘weak’ way. If zombies are described as hostile to the living (in that they, on some level, desire the destruction of living beings), then it would seem that they have an animus using either definition. If they are somehow either antagonistic without desire, perhaps like a robot that is programmed to kill (another popular zombie description) then they certainly don't fit the italicized definition. They may fit the bolded definition depending on how one interprets the 'programming'. Personally, I don't see a zombie having purpose, intention, an animating spirit (that would be necrotic energy imo), an attitude that informs one's actions or a disposition. But even that is suspect as one could say that the programming gives the zombie purpose or intention. I think an argument could also be made that the animus and soul are mutually inclusive but that is a topic of it’s own. I think that the first step here would be to define explicitly what is meant by the soul and animus (or if you want to use such loaded terms in lieu of simpler ones like “desire” and “free-willed”) as well as how these categories relate to the undead in question.
I'm not an English major so I could be wrong here but it really looks like a zombie, for example, may or may not have animus depending on the specific definition one uses and how you fluff your zombies. I could see the zombie having the italicized definition of animus very easily. They are often described as being hostile to living beings. This definition of a zombie’s attitude towards the living seems to fit the bolded definition in a limited, or as another put it, ‘weak’ way. If zombies are described as hostile to the living (in that they, on some level, desire the destruction of living beings), then it would seem that they have an animus using either definition. If they are somehow either antagonistic without desire, perhaps like a robot that is programmed to kill (another popular zombie description) then they certainly don't fit the italicized definition. They may fit the bolded definition depending on how one interprets the 'programming'. Personally, I don't see a zombie having purpose, intention, an animating spirit (that would be necrotic energy imo), an attitude that informs one's actions or a disposition. But even that is suspect as one could say that the programming gives the zombie purpose or intention. I think an argument could also be made that the animus and soul are mutually inclusive but that is a topic of it’s own. I think that the first step here would be to define explicitly what is meant by the soul and animus (or if you want to use such loaded terms in lieu of simpler ones like “desire” and “free-willed”) as well as how these categories relate to the undead in question.
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
In an old thread, which I forgot to tag, there was a similar discussion. What I ended up with after participating in that thread is:
Body = physical form, represented by Str and Dex. Manifested critters use thier Wis and Int in the place of the missing stats.
Life Force = animus, represented by Con. Unnatural life force is represented by a lack of Con.. and often has a set of conditional reponses, as in skeletons.
Mind = intelligence and memory, represented by INT. This is the portion of the critter that 'speak with dead' interacts with.
Soul = supernatual portion, represented by Wis, XP, and alignment. Loss of a Soul reduced the Wis to 1, changed alignment to TN, and the critter cannot earn XP.
character = B + L + M + S
Construct = B + L + S(*)
Mindless Undead = B + L + S(**)
Intelligent Undead = B +L (**) + M + S (*#)
(* Constructs and Animated Objects use partially formed Elemental souls. The result is a neutral alignment and incapability to gain XP.)
(**either positive or negative dependant on how it is created. The magical alteration corrupts the Body and traps the Soul, meaning that Raise Dead and similar spells will not work and the Soul cannot continue its journey. The enforced inactivity will eventually wither away the Souls earned XP. As long as the Mind and Soul are not transformed, Resurrection or Reincarnation still work, but only after the unnatural Life Force has been destroyed.)
(*# Due to the corruption of the Life Force, the Soul transforms, becoming single natured similar to an Outsider. The Mind also is transformed in such a way that it cannot be recovered, not even by True Reincarnation.)
The remaining Stat, CHR, is a combination of the Mind and Soul. Loss of the Mind makes CHR rather pointless, but a character can still interact without a Soul. One additional penalty to the loss of a soul is that your CHR is considered to be a ‘10’ for the purposes of interaction with others. Some animating magic fills in the blank when Mind or Soul is missing or not fully formed by installing an artificial CHR of 1
I prefer this interpretation as it ties the fluff to crunch. A demon's deal to take your soul *means* something.
YMMV
Body = physical form, represented by Str and Dex. Manifested critters use thier Wis and Int in the place of the missing stats.
Life Force = animus, represented by Con. Unnatural life force is represented by a lack of Con.. and often has a set of conditional reponses, as in skeletons.
Mind = intelligence and memory, represented by INT. This is the portion of the critter that 'speak with dead' interacts with.
Soul = supernatual portion, represented by Wis, XP, and alignment. Loss of a Soul reduced the Wis to 1, changed alignment to TN, and the critter cannot earn XP.
character = B + L + M + S
Construct = B + L + S(*)
Mindless Undead = B + L + S(**)
Intelligent Undead = B +L (**) + M + S (*#)
(* Constructs and Animated Objects use partially formed Elemental souls. The result is a neutral alignment and incapability to gain XP.)
(**either positive or negative dependant on how it is created. The magical alteration corrupts the Body and traps the Soul, meaning that Raise Dead and similar spells will not work and the Soul cannot continue its journey. The enforced inactivity will eventually wither away the Souls earned XP. As long as the Mind and Soul are not transformed, Resurrection or Reincarnation still work, but only after the unnatural Life Force has been destroyed.)
(*# Due to the corruption of the Life Force, the Soul transforms, becoming single natured similar to an Outsider. The Mind also is transformed in such a way that it cannot be recovered, not even by True Reincarnation.)
The remaining Stat, CHR, is a combination of the Mind and Soul. Loss of the Mind makes CHR rather pointless, but a character can still interact without a Soul. One additional penalty to the loss of a soul is that your CHR is considered to be a ‘10’ for the purposes of interaction with others. Some animating magic fills in the blank when Mind or Soul is missing or not fully formed by installing an artificial CHR of 1
I prefer this interpretation as it ties the fluff to crunch. A demon's deal to take your soul *means* something.
YMMV
