Undergrowth

[TheGogmagog]

What is normal movement for undergrowth? Vine Mine, and Woodland stride mention it, but it's not described under movement and terrain. A forrest without a trail is 1/2 movement, a Jungle without a tail is 1/4 movement. My hunch is 1/4 movement, but is it specified anywhere?

 

[Edheldur]

What is normal movement for undergrowth? Vine Mine, and Woodland stride mention it, but it's not described under movement and terrain. A forrest without a trail is 1/2 movement, a Jungle without a tail is 1/4 movement. My hunch is 1/4 movement, but is it specified anywhere?

For tactical -ie: combat- scale, the SRD lists this:

Undergrowth

Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way. Heavy undergrowth costs 4 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment with a 30% miss chance (instead of the usual 20%). It increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 5. Heavy undergrowth is easy to hide in, granting a +5 circumstance bonus on Hide checks. Running and charging are impossible. Squares with undergrowth are often clustered together. Undergrowth and trees aren’t mutually exclusive; it’s common for a 5-foot square to have both a tree and undergrowth.

For overland movement, there's no modifier listed, so I'd go with Forest, trackless.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Ah, thanks. It was heavy undergrowth I was looking for. Don't know how I missed it.
I also take the note about trees and undergrowth can exist in same squares means the penalties stack. So a Forrest with light undergrowth would be 1/4 movement, and a Jungle with Heavy undergrowth would be 1/16?

 

[frankthedm]

Ah, thanks. It was heavy undergrowth I was looking for. Don't know how I missed it.
I also take the note about trees and undergrowth can exist in same squares means the penalties stack. So a Forrest with light undergrowth would be 1/4 movement, and a Jungle with Heavy undergrowth would be 1/16?

Undergrowth does not stack with itself. 1/2 light, 1/4th heavy. A Small tree does not affect movement. A Large tree prevents movement.

Undergrowth
Vines, roots, and short bushes cover much of the ground in a forest. A space covered with light undergrowth costs 2 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment. Undergrowth increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 2 because the leaves and branches get in the way. Heavy undergrowth costs 4 squares of movement to move into, and it provides concealment with a 30% miss chance (instead of the usual 20%). It increases the DC of Tumble and Move Silently checks by 5. Heavy undergrowth is easy to hide in, granting a +5 circumstance bonus on Hide checks. Running and charging are impossible. Squares with undergrowth are often clustered together. Undergrowth and trees aren’t mutually exclusive; it’s common for a 5-foot square to have both a tree and undergrowth.

BTW...

Instead this table is used to generate the forest.

Yes, I feel that it is a lot of roughage

 

[TheGogmagog]

Interesting. It wouldn't be hard to write an Excel formula to determine trees and undergrowth.
"t" = tree
"T" = Massive tree (no need to check for undergrowth)
"u" = Light Undergrowth
"U" = Heavy undergrowth.
=IF(RAND()*100<10,"T",IF(RAND()*100<70,"t","")&IF(RAND()*100<20,"U",IF(RAND()*100<70,"u","")))
Medium forrest results look like this: (about 70' of movement from side to side instead of 40')

tU		tu	tu	u	tu	u	tu	t
t->	t\	tU	u	->	tu->	t\	U	tu
tU	t	u->	t/	tU	t	U	tu->	t->
tu	tu	T	tu	tu	tu	U	u	u
tu	u	t	u	u	tu	tu	u	u
tu	u	T	tU	tu	tu	tU	tu	T
t	tu	tU	t	t	t	T	t	tu

 

[frankthedm]

THANK YOU for the Excel formula!

But it looks like you have the 10% chance of a large tree coming out of the 70% chance of a small tree. An 80% chance of there being a tree, when there is a 90% chance of a tree being there, 1/8 of them being large trees. .

Though there is a chance all % are rolled seperatly, thus one roll having a 70% of creatina a small tree, another roll having a 10% of creating a large tree.

=IF(RAND()*100<11,"@","")&IF(RAND()*100<71,"t","")&IF(RAND()*100<21,"#","")&IF(RAND()*100<71,"U","")

This actually makes a dence forest have a chance to have an open square.

Also, would not 70% be "100*>71"? or does excel use ">" as "> or ="

 

[frankthedm]

Here is a 50' x 50' medium forest grid.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I always thought that % table wasn't a flat chance per square but an overall given a portion of sparse forest with 50 squares on the map, about half of them would have light vegitation...

ALtho a random forest generator looks like a really nice idea, just how to get it to battlemap size?