Undermountain maps - yeck!!

[Ulrick]

I don't understand why a lot effort is being made into these computer-generated dungeon maps that only the DM would probably see. And even for computer-generated maps those are pretty bad. Yep. I see those crayons.

I actually prefer the old style black and white maps that aren't so "busy-looking."

I can understand city maps being more detailed, because the player might probably see them.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Honestly, this whole fuss has got me kind of worried about Expedition to Castle Greyhawk. I was kind of trying to be excited by it, and it's the only one in the series I have any interest in actually buying.

Well, I expect the same sort of thing with Greyhawk, with a caveat. I think we'll see an adventure IN the ruins, rather than a full detailing of the ruins (not enough space). That said, given who's writing the Greyhawk book, I expect the adventure itself to more than make up for the fact that sub-level 27A isn't more than discussed in passing.

These sorts of mega-dungeons have always been problematic, IMO. Either you end up with a monster product (Rappan Atthuk, Volumes 1-25) or you end up with a product that just gives a sketch of most of the dungeon (any edition of Undermountain). I think the day of the super-sized dungeon as anything other than a homebrew labor of love has to be declared to be over.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I read through this in a store in Denmark

And now I have no interest in purchasing it.

I really don't think they ever should have contemplated doing Undermountain in their current format. The cartography looks mediocre to me, the Delve format makes it impossible to detail a significant part of the dungeon, and the hardcover format is a big step back from the boxed set (with its multiple foldout maps).

Honestly, if they were going to do this, they needed to make it the size and quality of Ptolus an d charge 100 bucks for it. I don't understand why Wizards doesn't do products of this sort. Monte proved it was possible.

I have decided that I really hate the Delve format. So much that I don't thinik I'll even buy Castle Greyhawk, unless it has a lot of support material about Greyhawk City.

I guess I'll be getting a Pathfinder subscription.

Ken

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

While we've heard from everyone who wants this to be the WLD for $30, does anyone have a review of the actual adventure within Undermountain, a write-up of what the new crunch is like (and if the recycled crunch is changed), etc.?

 

[Kestrel]

Well, I found this on the Wizard's site. Not sure if it will help with every empty room, but it could help somewhat.

Undermountain Room Generator

 

[messy]

I have decided that I really hate the Delve format.

sorry, but what's the "delve format?"

messy

 

[Zaukrie]

Delve is actually perfect for a product like this. Very little of Undermountain (since it so vast) need be inter-related in one adventure. Delve is perfect for that room to room tactical write up (if you could go beyond 2 pages....).

Delve is the new way that WotC writes up encounters to lay out "everything" you need on 2 pages - where the creatures start, their tactics, necessary stats....it's biggest problem is the variety/number of monsters you can have among other things.

But, I think in a product where you have a bunch of disconnected things, delve is perfect - I'd just skip the generic description and only use delve for each room with an encounter. Unfortunately, it sounds like they didn't key rooms to encounters, and that some of the encounters are relatively repetitive. There are so many creative people that work on these products, I don't understand what happens to them sometimes.

 

[helium3]

Wow. Those are really bad maps. Are you sure those are what's going to be printed in the final product?

 

[Greg V]

I am extremely disappointed with the Expedition to the Ruins of Undermountain adventure. The maps are indeed horrible. The one on the lower right hand corner of page 31 (labeled Vanrackdoom) is lifted straight out of the 2nd Edition Tomes adventure titled "Axe of the Dwarvish Lords." Way to go guys.

That's interesting but not without precedent. Did anyone else ever think that the eastern side of the original UM level 1 map looked a lot like a slight rework of the Quasqueton level 1 map from B1? I wonder how many other recycled dungeon maps have been hidden in Undermountain over the years?

 

[Arnwyn]

While we've heard from everyone who wants this to be the WLD for $30

Oh, have we? We haven't seen one, of course.

Your false dichotomies in this thread is painful.

That's interesting but not without precedent. Did anyone else ever think that the eastern side of the original UM level 1 map looked a lot like a slight rework of the Quasqueton level 1 map from B1? I wonder how many other recycled dungeon maps have been hidden in Undermountain over the years?

Indeed. It has also been pointed out in the past here, and also pointed out that it sucked.

Still does. The laziness that went with Vanrackdoom (originally a free web enhancement, so it's at least justified there) is unfortunate. The fact that it ended up in a published hardcover is pathetic.