D&D 5E Understanding WOTC's class design guidelines and subclass acquisition

[Minigiant]

So, in conclusion: ranger should have its subclass kick in at 1st level.

No. What Mearls is saying is that classes like ranger and paladin should either have their 1st level abilities buffed or their subclass moved to 1st level.

If rangers are supposed to be a class with exploration good skills, standard weapons and armor, and a combat trick, then Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer need a buff.

If rangers are supposed to be a skill monkey that trade some skillpower for weapons and a decent AC who later develops more combat features then it's subclass need buffs.

The issue is the designers didn't choose which one. Ranger sublasses are both specializations and definitions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

TBH I have no idea what an urban ranger is or why you would need one. "Surviving in an urban environment" is what most people do most of the time. I live in London, and survive fine without any special skills. Put me in the wilderness and I would have a hard time surviving without extra skills or a guide with said skills.

 

[Minigiant]

TBH I have no idea what an urban ranger is or why you would need one. "Surviving in an urban environment" is what most people do most of the time. I live in London, and survive fine without any special skills. Put me in the wilderness and I would have a hard time surviving without extra skills or a guide with said skills.

Because hopefully you aren't a criminal

The "urban ranger" is the low magic private eye and the city tracker.
A mob boss or guard captain gives an urban ranger a target and the urban ranger uses skills and divination to search the upper, middle,and lower class areas.

D&D requires both divination magic, exploration skills, and social skill to track someone in the city and no class can do that alone for a side quest. The closest is the ranger as it has divination and exploration skill. But your ranger would have wilderness baggage that doesn't match up.

EDIT: It's fantasy Batman. But the Batcomputer is replaced by spells. So as level 1, you should be able to play as Robin in training.

 

[Coroc]

Because hopefully you aren't a criminal

The "urban ranger" is the low magic private eye and the city tracker.
A mob boss or guard captain gives an urban ranger a target and the urban ranger uses skills and divination to search the upper, middle,and lower class areas.

D&D requires both divination magic, exploration skills, and social skill to track someone in the city and no class can do that alone for a side quest. The closest is the ranger as it has divination and exploration skill. But your ranger would have wilderness baggage that doesn't match up.

EDIT: It's fantasy Batman. But the Batcomputer is replaced by spells. So as level 1, you should be able to play as Robin in training.

Sorry, your idea is one solution, eventually a good solution for city areas which are non-standard. E.g. some post apocalyptic slum, Sigils evershifting map, a city with manifestation zones of undead or other planes, etc.

For your standard city e.g. waterdeep, greyhawk city and other fantasy places which are quite normal (in a way that a todays civilian even less a native citizen would not get very lost as long as he understands the language ) some rogue subclass or the investigative or such or even a cleric with the knowledge domain specialized in history (if the city is multilayered e.g. due to different time periods), might be the better solution for the role you are trying to fill.

 

[Minigiant]

Sorry, your idea is one solution, eventually a good solution for city areas which are non-standard. E.g. some post apocalyptic slum, Sigils evershifting map, a city with manifestation zones of undead or other planes, etc.

For your standard city e.g. waterdeep, greyhawk city and other fantasy places which are quite normal (in a way that a todays civilian even less a native citizen would not get very lost as long as he understands the language ) some rogue subclass or the investigative or such or even a cleric with the knowledge domain specialized in history (if the city is multilayered e.g. due to different time periods), might be the better solution for the role you are trying to fill.

It's not about being a guide. It's about being the tracker.

The rogue lacks the magic.
The cleric lacks the skills.
The wizard lacks the scores.

Sure for a complete urban adventure, your players can tailor themselves for a complete campaign of social intrigue and detective engagement. And you'd prefer that in you game is 80%+ dedicated to being a fantasy noir detective movie. Same if you were going for a heist team or urban ghostbusters.

But for the archetypal fantasy detective in a team that only dips into it every so often, you can't stuff the magic and skills into a single class. At that point one option is to dip back into D&D past and snag the urban ranger. Problem is it need the same class feature swaps and a subclass.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Because hopefully you aren't a criminal

The "urban ranger" is the low magic private eye and the city tracker.

That's a rogue.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

That's a rogue.

I'm with you on this.

Ranger that want's to be a ''urban'' one just need to take the Urban Bounty Hunter, Spy or Investigator background to know more or less automatically the hiding spot of underground actor. Then use your favored foe on humanoid and maybe creatures often seen in sewer or as house guards (oozes, construct etc). Keep your favored terrain for mission that may take you outside the city's walls, depending on the location of said city (Sharn would probably be coastal and mountain, Waterdeep coastal and grassland etc). Takes skills in investigation, stealth, athletic and forgo nature, survival and animal stuff.

Then, if you have a urban ranger archetype at level 3 it doesnt sound far fetched because your werent a wilderness guy until now anyway.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Ranger subclass didn't need to be 1st level because neither the Hunter nor the Beastmaster had specific options needed for the 'urban' ranger. Rather, it was the base ranger's features that would have had to have had 'urban' be considered one of the selectable environments.

 

[Undrave]

And that's a good thing because it's an option, not something baked into the base class for every fighter.

It's also an option that came out 5.5 years after the edition started, and still unofficial, and that says something about how it is in fact not that fundamental.

I just mean they recognized the lack of magical option before level 3 as a weakness in the design of the Eldritch Knight.

But yeah, took 'em way too long... but you know, producing more Fighting Styles and Maneuvers? That's WAY harder and less important than making more SPELLS >.>

 

[tetrasodium]

TBH I have no idea what an urban ranger is or why you would need one. "Surviving in an urban environment" is what most people do most of the time. I live in London, and survive fine without any special skills. Put me in the wilderness and I would have a hard time surviving without extra skills or a guide with said skills.

It's a generally poorly realized concept created because of gaps made by making stealth too broad, not having social engineering and streetwise type skills and so on while the ranger concept itself is too heavily shellacked with Steve Irwin, Robin hood, and natureman bounty hunter. There are a few ways that you could go with it and people have already given good explanations, but at least in 5e it's a concept that better fits under rogue fighter or almost any class other than ranger or druid due to their base themes and spell lists