Underwater Flying [2006 Thread]

[Dracorat]

Fly (movement type) specifically mentions "through the air".

It says nothing about through water the same as a climb speed says nothing about moving through water, etc. Flight is air only. Magical or otherwise.

 

[MarkB]

I'd allow magical flight to at least buoy a creature up in the water so they're not in danger of sinking. I'd also allow them to base their swimming speed off their magical flight speed rather than their land speed if it was advantageous for them.

 

[Dracorat]

But you agree then that all of that would be a house rule?

 

[Artoomis]

But you agree then that all of that would be a house rule?

Who cares what you call it? As I pointed out, you need to figure out how fly works underwater in your games becuase it's not covered in the rules.

In my opinion, it's a bit over-simplistic to actually take the position that fly simply does not work underwater.

 

[Dracorat]

It matters so I know whether to argue the rules to you or accept your position as "I know the rules, but would rather handle it this way."

And it's not overly simplistic. It may be legalistic, but that's not quite the same thing. However, when discussing rules, if you want a RAW answer, you have to be legalistic.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Who cares what you call it? As I pointed out, you need to figure out how fly works underwater in your games becuase it's not covered in the rules.

It's covered quite well in the rules.

You cannot fly underwater. Deset Gled's post is an accurate summary in proving that.

 

[lukelightning]

I say no. Flying is flying though the air. It's not some magical thrust that moves you around, it's flight.

 

[mvincent]

Initially I was definitely in the "no flying underwater" camp, but then there are things like:
1) A golem could walk under water even if it had no swim speed.
2) A character could walk through a shallow pool.
3) A Winged creature could use its wings even if it's legs were in water
4) I believe you could Fly underwater while using a "Freedom of Movement" spell
5) Flying can propel you through hindering terrain (like obscuring mist)

So, although fly should not grant you an actual swim speed, I could see it being used for propulsion.

 

[Dracorat]

Initially I was definitely in the "no flying underwater" camp, but then there are things like:
1) A golem could walk under water even if it had no swim speed.
2) A character could walk through a shallow pool.
3) A Winged creature could use its wings even if it's legs were in water
4) I believe you could Fly underwater while using a "Freedom of Movement" spell
5) Flying can propel you through hindering terrain (like obscuring mist)

So, although fly should not grant you an actual swim speed, I could see it being used for propulsion.

1) & 2) are not swimming, so not really relevant. They are walking, as you admit.

3) Wings are moving through air in your example.

4) No they cannot. Flying is not considered "normal movement" for underwater.

5) Obscuring mist is not hindering terrain. Additionally, not being able to see will cause you to have to fly at half speed.

 

[Artoomis]

It matters so I know whether to argue the rules to you or accept your position as "I know the rules, but would rather handle it this way."

And it's not overly simplistic. It may be legalistic, but that's not quite the same thing. However, when discussing rules, if you want a RAW answer, you have to be legalistic.

In this case, the RAW simply does not address wether one can "fly" underwater as if it were the same as:

"Hampered Movement
Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move."

Thjere is nothing that says underwater flight could not fall into this category. There is also nothing that says it does.

In this case, the RAW just is sompletely unsatisfactory and one must extend it in tehway you want.

Either no flying underwater at all, or use the "Hamopered Movement" rules. Either way is RAW.

So let's leave "pure RAW" aside and talk about how you'd do it in your campaign, because that's what really counts, isn't it?