Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Another New Ranger Variant

*Deleted by user*

 

[Mistwell]

Yeah...that's not clunky at all. Welcome back to 3E DR.

I took the language directly from an existing 5e rule. Welcome to 5e. Glad you could be bothered to read the PHB.

 

[Minigiant]

Toughness is not determined by just one thing in D&D. It's a combination of how much damage you can put out per round (kill the other guy before they kill you), armor class (how hard it is for the other guy to hit you), and Hit Points - along with other less direct aspects that affect survivability.

Looking at the totality of this Ranger and compared to other classes, it's not tougher than Fighters or Barbarians. It's probably not as tough as Monks either. That puts this Ranger right where it should be: below these previously mentioned classes, but above everybody else.

You can't look at just one aspect.

That was my point.
Rangers iconically are not HP tough except in the earliest editions when they were "fighter plus". Once classes were normalized, ranger were squishier.

Rangers were endurance based toughness in 3rd and hard to pin down in 4th.

Oh good grief...




Oh good grief - Oh good grief.

(I'm doubling-down on your double-down...)

I'll triple down. In cake form.

The d&d ranger has always been a triple layer cake of two different cake layers and an ice cream layer with chocolate icing.

The claim is that this 3 layer cake, icecream, cake, chocolate icing isn't special enough and thus needs to be fixed

This new ranger is a two layer cake with lemon icing.

A true fan of the ranger cake would not make a new type of cake. They wouldn't be saying these things. They'd be improving the options and strength of the cake/icecream/cake/chocicing cake.

 

[MoutonRustique]

Why does the rogue have to be the only stealth guy.

Extra start action - Rangers are quick to act due to the dangers inherent in their chosen environment, honed reflexes and all that.
Ultra-stealth - I see this as elven archers ducking in and out of cover firing arrows or even a fast takedown by a ranger on a sentry.
Spirit companion - I like it but really, if a ranger has an animal companion I feel like it should be a permanent one.

It's a question of gut reaction.

It's not that the rogue should be the only stealth guy - it's that a "super stealth ninja move action" seems to fit perfectly in the rogue repertoire. In the ranger... sure the elven ranger is often the "hidden snipper in the woods", but it's not what the class feels like it's about for me.

Same kind of reasoning goes for the rest - nothing screams "NO WAY! This is an aberration and rangers should never have any of this!", it's more along the lines of "huh... This would make a really cool *[class-other-than-ranger]* ability. Feels kind of strange to see the ranger as the one getting it... huh..."

 

[Corpsetaker]

I don't really see anything wrong with the current Ranger in our game.

One of the players in our group plays a beastmaster ranger and loves it because I allowed his animal to act independently and gave his animal more HP.

It's little tweaks like this that fix the issues, not stuff like this.

This actually appears to be some sort of odd attempt at a Drizzt build without the need of a Figurine of Wondrous Power. It looks more like a poor attempt at some sort of Shaman.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

But those come from spells and use spell slots. And to get combat power, you must use one of your top 3 levels of slots.

The paladin gets a steed, permanently, with a level 2 spell. He only needs to recast if it dies. The 14th level Necromancer can acquire the first Banshee/Wight/whatever he meets, and it will break action economy just as badly as the Beastmaster's beast, no spell slot cost. The bound Dryad costs money but no slots on a daily basis, only a monthly or yearly basis.

The Beastmaster's beast could be enabled to act freely with no action cost at all from the ranger at 11th level and it still wouldn't be an outlier as far as action economy goes. Viable, yes. Outlier, no.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Same kind of reasoning goes for the rest - nothing screams "NO WAY! This is an aberration and rangers should never have any of this!", it's more along the lines of "huh... This would make a really cool *[class-other-than-ranger]* ability. Feels kind of strange to see the ranger as the one getting it... huh..."

I feel exactly the same way. Hell, I feel that way about the PHB ranger's Hide in Plain Sight. It's not like the ranger isn't allowed to be proficient in stealth. But stealth isn't what makes a ranger a ranger. And if I were a rogue looking at a ranger using Skirmisher's Stealth, I'd be thinking, "Why can't I, the alleged stealth specialist, do that?" A rogue should not feel like he ought to take two levels in ranger in order to be a better rogue.

 

[CapnZapp]

The really odd thing about the beastmaster is that he is the only one who gets singled out for a gimped companion this way. A paladin's steed is an intelligent mount which can act independently; so is a high-level Necromancer's pet Wight; so is a druid's Planar Bound Pixie. It's not like 5E is short on ways to acquire henchment.

I prefer to not make comparisons.

The ranger is gimped when her pet tries to act. Gimped and needs fixing.

The pet is gimped because it doesn't level up nearly enough and is generally only a liability in combat. Gimped and needs fixing.

The animal companion needs work because it sucks and is super-boring in play.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't really see anything wrong with the current Ranger in our game.

One of the players in our group plays a beastmaster ranger and loves it because I allowed his animal to act independently and gave his animal more HP.

It's little tweaks like this that fix the issues, not stuff like this.

This actually appears to be some sort of odd attempt at a Drizzt build without the need of a Figurine of Wondrous Power. It looks more like a poor attempt at some sort of Shaman.

You do know you might not see anything wrong because you're not using the rules we discuss... What is your ranger's level?

 

[Corpsetaker]

You do know you might not see anything wrong because you're not using the rules we discuss... What is your ranger's level?

Ehhhhh yeah. That's kind of the point. People complain about the beastmaster ranger but I have fixed it in our group. Also we find the regular ranger perfectly acceptable.

The beastmaster is 8th.

 

[Minigiant]

The paladin gets a steed, permanently, with a level 2 spell. He only needs to recast if it dies. The 14th level Necromancer can acquire the first Banshee/Wight/whatever he meets, and it will break action economy just as badly as the Beastmaster's beast, no spell slot cost. The bound Dryad costs money but no slots on a daily basis, only a monthly or yearly basis.

The Beastmaster's beast could be enabled to act freely with no action cost at all from the ranger at 11th level and it still wouldn't be an outlier as far as action economy goes. Viable, yes. Outlier, no.

The thing is

The paladin's steed is a CR 1/2 warhorse, CR 1/8 pony, CR 1/4 elk, CR 1/8 mastiff, or CR 18 camel that never gets stronger. It wipes on less than damage and can't hit the broad side of a barn byy the time you can willing to resummon it when not on downtime. It's effect HP is ~15* the number of 2nd or higher spell slots you are willing to burn on it. And every slot you do use to resummon is is one less divine smite.

Find Steed Warhorse
Acts: Has own actions
HP: 19 +19*slots used to resummon it
Speed: 60'
AC: 11 OR barding
Attack rolls: +4
Damage: 11
Duration: Permanent
Other: Trampling Charge, Can be used as a mount for medium or smaller characters.


Beastmaster Mastiff
Acts: Uses master's actions
HP: 5 OR Ranger level *4 (44 at level 11)
AC: 12 + Ranger's Proficiency (16 at level 11) OR barding
Speed: 40'
Attack rolls: +3 + Ranger's Proficiency (7 at level 11)
Damage: 4 + Ranger's Proficiency (8 at level 11)
Duraction: Permanent
Other: keen hearing and smell. can be used as a mount for small characters.


Neoranger's spirit bear
Acts: Has own actions
HP: 34 OR Half the Ranger level (~52 at level 11)
AC: 11
Speed: 40', Climb 30'
Attack rolls: +5 + Ranger's wisdom (~+7 at level 11)
Damage: 8 + 11
Duration: 1 minute
Other: keen smell.

If you average the AC/Hp, level 11 beast companion is about a CR 4 creature defensively and hits 50% of the time of a CR 11 creature for 8 damage for attack. The spirit beast is a high end CR 1 creature and the found steed is a CR 1/2 creature or worse. As for a necormancer, almost everything undead over CR 2 will keep getting saving throws and eventually breaks free. And the bound planar is very expensive. It's not an equal game and the tradeoffs are there.

A free willed beastmaster beast might not look too bad. But allowing the ranger to get Weapon/Weapon/Beast instead of WeaponBeastBeast each turn can get bad fast. It becomes a virtual free attack each turn without giving up your 2 sharpshooter bow shots or relying on positioning or targeting like the hunter does. It could easily catch a DM off gaurd.