Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Barbarian and Monk

Unearthed Arcana makes an unexpected return (the last one was back in May) with a three-page PDF containing two subclasses -- Path of the Wild Soul for the barbarian, and Way of the Astral Self for the monk.

 

[Navar]

I wonder who they hire for bouncers.

Likely Wild Soul Barbarians

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"sentient golems" = "Gonzo high magic robots" sorry, not that there is anything wrong with that, but that's what those are.

A Gnoll or Orcish Wild Soul Barbarian would seem very appropriate for sections of Eberron.

Nope and nope.

The idea that sentient golems are inherently high magic, gonzo, or robots, is completely preposterous. I could maybe see an extremely broad usage of robot, but it would be so broad that it's only usefulness would seem to be to misrepresent the thing in question. Star Trek's Data is a robot. He is mechanical, technological, non-living. Even then, "robot" is an extreme reduction of what he actually is.

Warforged aren't any of those things. They're organisms of living wood and stone that metal armor gets attached to, with as much evidence of a soul as any mortal being in Eberron has. The only element that reaches toward "robot" is the fact that they are constructed by other mortals, and occasionally bad fanart that presents a clockwork creature and calls it a warforged.

As for gonzo, dragons are a hell of a lot more gonzo than anything on the cover you're referencing. Fireball is gonzo, if that cover is gonzo. The only way out of gonzo territory in dnd is to not use most of the MM, or half the PC classes, if that cover is gonzo.

And again, if you don't want to see the difference between high magic and common magic, that's fine, but the difference is significant regardless.

And there is nowhere in eberron where a wild soul barbarian could reasonably be common, without tweaking the setting. I guess i should clarify, in case someone feels pedantic, that by in Eberron, I mean on the actual world of Eberron. A creature from Thelanis, or one of the other planes, might be reasonable as just a normal member of their tribe. But even in the Demon Wastes, a Fey Spire, or in Khyber, they'd only fit in the setting as either a one-off confluence of planar magic, probably via a manifest zone, or a known but rare event even within that space. "Not unheard of but still rare" is about as common as such a thing could get, just like PCs in general, mid teir or higher spellcasters, etc. The vast majority of people in Eberron are just folks, with no magic of their own.

 

[Parmandur]

Nope and nope.

The idea that sentient golems are inherently high magic, gonzo, or robots, is completely preposterous. I could maybe see an extremely broad usage of robot, but it would be so broad that it's only usefulness would seem to be to misrepresent the thing in question. Star Trek's Data is a robot. He is mechanical, technological, non-living. Even then, "robot" is an extreme reduction of what he actually is.

Warforged aren't any of those things. They're organisms of living wood and stone that metal armor gets attached to, with as much evidence of a soul as any mortal being in Eberron has. The only element that reaches toward "robot" is the fact that they are constructed by other mortals, and occasionally bad fanart that presents a clockwork creature and calls it a warforged.

As for gonzo, dragons are a hell of a lot more gonzo than anything on the cover you're referencing. Fireball is gonzo, if that cover is gonzo. The only way out of gonzo territory in dnd is to not use most of the MM, or half the PC classes, if that cover is gonzo.

And again, if you don't want to see the difference between high magic and common magic, that's fine, but the difference is significant regardless.

And there is nowhere in eberron where a wild soul barbarian could reasonably be common, without tweaking the setting. I guess i should clarify, in case someone feels pedantic, that by in Eberron, I mean on the actual world of Eberron. A creature from Thelanis, or one of the other planes, might be reasonable as just a normal member of their tribe. But even in the Demon Wastes, a Fey Spire, or in Khyber, they'd only fit in the setting as either a one-off confluence of planar magic, probably via a manifest zone, or a known but rare event even within that space. "Not unheard of but still rare" is about as common as such a thing could get, just like PCs in general, mid teir or higher spellcasters, etc. The vast majority of people in Eberron are just folks, with no magic of their own.

I'm sorry, but nothing at the start there makes me think that Warforged are less than high magic, or not robots? I like them, that's just how I see it.

Dungeons & Dragons is very gonzo (wooooo), but planes, trains and street-lights....

I recognize that the "common magic" magitech is a distinct type, but in general parlance, I'd say "high magic" is appropriate.

Eberron distinctives like the Demon Wastes and Manifest zones are likely to be covered by this book: it's not like the Golgari completely dominate Ravnica, either.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm sorry, but nothing at the start there makes me think that Warforged are less than high magic, or not robots? I like them, that's just how I see it.

Dungeons & Dragons is very gonzo (wooooo), but planes, trains and street-lights....

I recognize that the "common magic" magitech is a distinct type, but in general parlance, I'd say "high magic" is appropriate.

Eberron distinctives like the Demon Wastes and Manifest zones are likely to be covered by this book: it's not like the Golgari completely dominate Ravnica, either.

I don't know what you're trying to say or respond to with the last part, could you clarify? It reads like you're responding to something, but I can't think of what I said that it's a direct reply to. Not being snarky, just not seeing the connection.

Common magic isn't just a distinct type, it isn't high magic. Eberron is not Harry Potter. Forgotten Realms is closer to high magic than Eberron.

The idea that airships and trains (much less streetlights of all things!) are gonzo is...well, I think we have entirely incompatible concepts of what the word means, if those things fit the term for you. That's fine, but it does probably mean we won't get much use out of further discussion on the topic, since neither of us is likely to change our definition of "gonzo".

 

[Parmandur]

I don't know what you're trying to say or respond to with the last part, could you clarify? It reads like you're responding to something, but I can't think of what I said that it's a direct reply to. Not being snarky, just not seeing the connection.

Common magic isn't just a distinct type, it isn't high magic. Eberron is not Harry Potter. Forgotten Realms is closer to high magic than Eberron.

The idea that airships and trains (much less streetlights of all things!) are gonzo is...well, I think we have entirely incompatible concepts of what the word means, if those things fit the term for you. That's fine, but it does probably mean we won't get much use out of further discussion on the topic, since neither of us is likely to change our definition of "gonzo".

Sorry for the lack of clarity: that was about whether these could fit in anywhere in Eberron, in response to the last part of your post.

Forgotten Realms is definitely a High Magic setting: there are not magic trains and street lighting, nor sentient golems around, however. Since Forgotten Realms is a high magic setting, and in my view Eberron has more magic then I would say Eberron is a high magic setting, even if there are fewer superheroes.

A sentient Golems Wizard robbing a magic train is gonzo in my book, yes, and Baker likes to bring the wacky.

 

[Xohar17]

So, stand user monk? Maybe theyre going for a jojo crossover .

But seriously,how much damage do the arms do? I couldnt find it anywhere

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Leatherhead]

But seriously,how much damage do the arms do? I couldnt find it anywhere

They are monk weapons. Which is a slightly obtuse way of saying they use the Martial Arts Damage die.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

To be semi-serious for a second (semi-serious is like semi-sweet chocolate; better in a cookie), I think that different people have different processes, and different ways to enjoy the creative process, and, for that matter, different fuels for their creative fire.

You might like chocolate chips, but some people love them the butterscotch.

To be more spe-cific, and less cookie-cific, I often think of e e cummings; the point is not that he did not know the rules, it is that he had rules that he knew, and broke them in specific ways.

Creativity, for me, is not the absence of strictures, because that would be like eating all cookies, all the time. Instead, creativity is fueled by understanding the archetypes and tropes, and playing into them, working against them, or even breaking them entirely in a knowing manner.

It's like George R. R. "I have no Pages" Martin; the creativity is not fueled by saying, "What if I could do anything?" It is fueled by saying, "What if I take this trope that everyone is familiar with (Tolkien) and apply an additional level of realism to it?" Proverbially, "What is Aragorn's tax policy?"

In that manner, we can quickly bridge the gap between those (such as me) who find meaning in the class structure and what is referred to as "niche protection" and those who do not; it's not that either is right, it's just that my creativity is not fueled by throwing away those things that differentiate what little separates out the Barbarian, or, for that matter, what differentiates D&D from other systems. At a certain point, if you're going to have the Super Magic Barbarian bereft of any other meaning, you should probably just eschew the class system all together and move toward a gestalt class-less system, because why bother?

Or, to shorten my point immensely:

The bolded text is what I disagree with most strongly, in all of that. We agree about different fuels for creativity. I semi-jokingly took issue with your joking dismissal of other creative fuels than your own prefered one, because it is more often expressed with complete seriousness.

But the bolded text is just, IMO, plain wrong. A magic surge barbarian isn't any less a Barbarian than the PHB subclasses. The 5e barbarian doesn't hate magic. Maybe, for you, that means the Barbarian has lost it's identity, or become soemthing it wasn't before, but that doesn't change the fact that the 5e Barbarian isn't contradictory to magic. This barbarian, in particularly, simply has the ability to sense magic around themselves, and their body is infused with planar magical energy. It's not like they gave them Spellcasting. They learned one spell that is there because it would be silly to spell out the same benefits but pretend it's not the same thing, so they just made the feature that is basically detect magic just be detect magic. That's less spellcasting than the totem barbarian.

The Storm Herald is infused the power of storms. That's magic as hell.

This Barbarian is fueled by deeply experienced emotions and a physical tie to a place they are "touched" by. To me, that's "DnD Barbarian" as it gets. Their rage expresses their emotional and physical bond to the physical place they are touched by into an external effect. That is...I mean it's seriously 100% Barbarian.

But even if it weren't, so what? Why would that mean we might as well not be using classes? A subclass that subverts the trope of it's parent class is exactly what you described above as fueling your creativity! Imagine a world wherein all barbarians still hate magic. Ignore how incompatible that is with 5e in general, and any issues of "why do all barbarians feel the same way about something that broad?" Now, there's a subclass for Barbarians that are magic. It's a perfectly cromulent character concept for that base class, made in a way that the player that it appeals to doesn't have to create a wierd mechanical kludge in order to create such a character. That's awesome.

That's exactly one of the primary benefits of even having subclasses. Some will reinforce the primary tropes, so will mix them with outside tropes, and some will directly subvert them.

All without having to convince a DM to allow multi-classing, and potentially be told, "well, since it's a multi-class build, it can't be a level 1 concept, so you have to jump through these in game hoops in order to take the level of sorcerer", or whatever, and even then it still doesn't actually mesh or accomplish the goal of being a barbarian that is infused with magic, because you can't magically Rage, and the two classes fight eachother in every aspect of the game, instead of coming together to make a character who is a primal warrior fueled by the ability to enter into a frenzied state, who is infused by the natural magic of their weird little mountain valley that is a crossroad into the land of the mercurial and terrifying Fey.

It's the same sort of concept as the Storm Warden, but with planar themes instead of storm themes.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*