Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Wizards & Warlocks -- Hexblades, Raven Queens, and Lore Mastery!

Master of Hexes
Starting at 14th level, you can use your
Hexblade’s Curse again without resting, but
when you apply it to a new target, the curse
immediately ends on the previous target.

Does this mean you can cast it one more time, or over and over again? And does the 1 minute duration reset upon a new target, or does it continue from the previous target?

 

[zaratan]

I should have said sorcery points, not metamagic. You get more slots than base casters based on sorcery points. Full stop. The sorcer can use these extra slots for metamagic. The wizard has base slots, he must use those to get some metamagic. X(base caster) + Y (sorcery points) > X(base caster) - Z(lore sacrificing slots). So on that score, sorcerer wins (more slots, more metamagic options)

Lore can swap energy type. That is powerful, I agree, but I think in practice its not as great as it might seem. *IF* you (as a caster) only have one energy type prepared, and *IF* you encounter a creature(s) resistant/immune to that type, then it matters.

1/rest switching a stat for saves? Again, pretty awesome. 1 per rest. But realistically, if I am targeting a good stat (say con for brute) I swap to a dump stat for a brute (dex, eg). What is that? +5 vs -2 at the most extreme? In a way its like 1/rest Disadvantage to a save. Not huge by any means.

well, 2 lvl in lore and you have many storm sorc/tempest cleric combos. Fire and poison resistance are preatty common, and some of the best damage spells are from those types.
change save 1x/short rest is like 3x/day, that much of heightened spell would cost 9 SP and affect just one target. But what most guys didn't saw, with the right party, change ST is ridiculous. Restrained gives desadvantage in dex ST (entangle or conjure animals like giant frog or giant crab?), stunned and paralyzed are auto fail in Str and Dex ST... lore master + monk = bye.

at lvl 6 lore master have 5 options, is more than lvl 20 sorcerer. Sorcerer don't have all the "if" options, because most part of his carrer he got only 2 options, making all the situational uses of metamagic useless.

at lvl 18 wizard don't spend more lvl 1 and 2 spellslots, so will be all for they "metamagic".

42 spells know (probably more with scrolls) and 25 preparared (rituals don't count) agains't 15 total. at lvl 10 the Lore master can change at short rest and at lvl 14 you can use ANY spell 1/day?

I'm falling to see why there are people arguing about that.

 

[Ganymede81]

While I've been known to complain about too much flavor in the rules, Warlock Invocations is one place I don't take too literally.

I'm not sure this is a matter of flavor. They can flavor the invocation as being as tentacly and as phallic as they want; that's easily dealt with.

My issue was the mechanical choice of locking the weapon into a flail (or greatsword, or mace, or longbow). That has actual mechanical implications regarding weapon choice, such as how many hands you want to devote to your weapon, whether you want to use strength or dexterity, or whether you want to fight in melee or at range.

In short: you can reflavor a silver greatsword to look like a giant stuffed tarpon if you really wanted to, but it will still use the mechanics of a greatsword.

 

[Mercule]

I'm not sure this is a matter of flavor. They can flavor the invocation as being as tentacly and as phallic as they want; that's easily dealt with.

My issue was the mechanical choice of locking the weapon into a flail (or greatsword, or mace, or longbow). That has actual mechanical implications regarding weapon choice, such as how many hands you want to devote to your weapon, whether you want to use strength or dexterity, or whether you want to fight in melee or at range.

In short: you can reflavor a silver greatsword to look like a giant stuffed tarpon if you really wanted to, but it will still use the mechanics of a greatsword.

Yes and no. There is certainly a line that can't get crossed. In this case, though, I don't see an issue with reskinning it to be a long sword shaped like a snake that strikes foes at a distance. The difference in damage is minimal and the pact weapon can already assume whatever form the Warlock desires.

But, to be clear, if the "flavor" of the weapon is a greatsword, it does 1d12 damage. If it's a long sword, it does 1d8 damage, etc. If that bothers someone's min-max aesthetic, it sucks to be them. I don't have much tolerance for someone who gets their panties in a bunch over that.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

It seems a pretty minor thing for your pact weapon to be a great sword, and then when you active the claw of acamar, it turns into a flail for that round. The necrotic damage from the claw should far compensate for the loss of damage from the weapon change. And let's face it, the warlock is not drowning in extra spell slots, so most of the time your weapon is going to be the great sword anyway.

 

[Gadget]

Look, I am not really comparing the whole of the both classes...

But you are, you can't make comparisons between the cost of different things without taking context and the whole into account. There is such a thing as opportunity cost and making apples to apples comparison.

but I am trying to gauge the price of the lore master "metamagic" with the sorcerer's. This is what I was originally aiming at, and it seemed that, as spell slots and sorcery pool are the resources that enable both features, and both sorcery pool and arcane recovery impact spell slots, they should be part of the comparison. How should I proceed? I definitely do not agree that 1 lvl 1 spell = 1 sorcery spell point. The way spell slots are created from sorcery points seem to back me up. If you think they are, I would be very pleased if you could share your thoughts about it.

My thoughts are that the sorcerer's conversion from sorcery points to spell slots and vice versa was designed to be inefficient and, more importantly, designed specifically for the sorcerer chassis, not the wizard. If we want to talk about giving the Wizard sorcery points and such, I suppose we can do so, but I'm sort of at a loss at why I would ever play a sorcerer if that were the case. Of course, there is the optional magic point system in the DMG, but even that does not convert the top level spells into pure points and limits them into a once a long rest usage pattern.

If I was playing a sorcerer and was given the option of joining all my sorcery points and my spell levels into one big pool, just by adding the totality of both, and then I could choose to use this pool (the same number) as either a pool of spell levels that I can convert to sorcery points via sorcerer rules or a pool of sorcery points that I can convert to spell levels also using the sorcerer rules, I am pretty sure to which side I would be on. This is also why, if ever, somebody would just add the sorcery points to the total spell points in the DMG, this would have a significant impact on how much a sorcerer can (ab)use metamagics. It also makes self-evident that draining this same pool of one "sorcery point" definitely does not equal draining this pool of one level one spell.

That may be so, but I would find such a system a tad too convoluted for my taste. YMMV

Moreover, the lore master will not benefit of any other wizard tradition, right?

Yes, that is correct. And when I win the lottery and retire, I will no longer draw my weekly pay check. Please try to contain your sympathy for my dilemma.

Look I know you are not making the argument that this sub-class is balanced, but I think you are ignoring a lot of context in making a direct, cross class comparison from sorcery points to wizard spell slots. The wizard does not have sorcery points, so the only other remotely fungible currency they can offer (without grafting a whole new sub-system onto a sub-class or using Hit Points, which opens up whole new can of worms) is spell slots. And a level one slot is the smallest denomination that currency has to offer. Is this the same as a sorcery point? Don't know, but I don't think it is as simple as converting from dollars to pounds to euros; or the formulae for doing so is a bit more complex. The Sorcerer pays for the privilege of using sorcery points by having a limited spell list, a very curtailed number of spells known, and the lack of the ability to cast ritual spells without spending a spell slot (if said spell happens to be on their list). If we were to count the various Sorcerer & Wizard sub-class features as a wash, that is a somewhat hefty price to pay for the privilege. Until wizards start paying a similar price, I find the comparison of 1 sorcery point to 1 level one wizard slot kind of spurious.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Alchemical Casting - hate the name; it's "alchemy" in a very abstract sense, not one most players are going to associate with the word.

And while I don't hate the actual mechanics of the feature, the properties seem more fitting of a war mage type subclass, not a bookish Lore Master. I mean, fireballs and lightning bolts with a range of a mile? Sounds like fantasy artillery to me. Just send in the Rogue Scouts as forward observers.

I think that is down to their examples more than the actual mechanics.

But also, this is precisely how I would want a "magic savant" character to work. I would want them to be able to change the formula at will to make the spells do different things, and create new formulas on the spot to do what they want, which is effectively what this allows. The only thing missing is a system by which they can memorize modified versions of spells (read, new spells) and cast them without using an extra slot.

Perhaps they can, after using the feature in a specific way:

make an int check to remember for later what they did differently and how it worked, against their own spell D.C.? D.C.+spell level?

Then spend time and resources to develop the spell as if learning a new spell, but longer. Might require downtime. Then, they can add the spell to their spellbook as if learning it from another wizard.

Lets say, spell level is equal to the base spell that was modified, plus the 1/2 (rnd up) the spell level of the modification used?



Also, doesn't it seem like we have all the tools needed at this point to put together a general system for creating new spells?

In fact, my only problem with such a system for Lore Masters is that I think any caster, especially any wizard, should be able to do this, and LM should just be better at it...idk.

 

[Herobizkit]

I have a few nits to pick, but I'm super-late to the game, so bear with.

Hexblade. All the yes. My issue is with the limited invocations that are strapped to specific patrons. Wipe those off and you're gold.

Also, why give a Hexblade a Greatsword as an option (Curse Blade) if he can't use his class abilities with it? Hexblade stuff keys off a non-Two-handed weapon. Less of an issue if that specific Invocation isn't tied to Hexblade, as a STR-based Blade Pact Warlock could use it well.

And Lore Master... Sorcerer's whole jam is altering magic and now they're going to give the best altering power to the Wizard? Get outta here with that.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Also, why give a Hexblade a Greatsword as an option (Curse Blade) if he can't use his class abilities with it? Hexblade stuff keys off a non-Two-handed weapon. Less of an issue if that specific Invocation isn't tied to Hexblade, as a STR-based Blade Pact Warlock could use it well.

It's a trade-off. That one invocation is (theoretically) more powerful than others, so the downside is that you have to use Strength with it.

It would be like if wizards had access to a Super Fireball spell that did even more damage than regular Fireball, but its save DC was based on your Wisdom. It's a way of promoting an otherwise-sub-optimal choice to make it more competitive.

 

[jrowland]

Honestly,

I think the "Lore master OP" argument is really a "Sorcerer kinda sucks" argument. Let's face it, with the way spell slots/spells known/spells prepared works now, it took away a lot of what made the sorcerer: spontaneous casting. To compensate they took metamagic from all casters and gave it to the sorcerer. Now people are upset because there is a wizard who can sort of do metamgic (among other things).

The truth is, the "problem" is the sorcerer. Has been since day 1 of 5E. They know it. It's why we have half a dozen or so variants...I don't see Lore wizard OP to any class, and all the "But sorcerer..." arguments is a sorcerer problem.

 

[Leatherhead]

I'm not sure what you mean about the narrative flow of the game, but I would much rather see a wizard with an ability to re-memorize spells on a short rest than this. Even if that memorization included some meta-magic stuff. If that happened, I would be completely fine with it.

The lore master provides an unique opportunity. A chance for the wizard character to be more intelligent than the wizard player.