Unengaged Players

[mazzoli]

I'd like some advice, if the community doesn't mind sharing their opinions (never a concern on the internet, right?).

I have a weekly game that's been running since January. The players know what's going on in the story, actually remember the names of NPCs (a first in any of my games), and seem to be enjoying the game. All of these are good.

The problem is that they don't do anything, regardless of how I try to get them to make decisions or take actions. I'm having to come up with not only new stuff for them to do every week, but also motivations for their characters. I started out trying not to railroad them, but they seem to be forcing me into it. I would say that it's what the players seem to want and just go with it, but it's really taxing my time and creativity to do this week after week.

I've seen some suggestions such as bonus experience for player created content, and I think I'll give that a try. I've also got a player interested in being the DM for a session or two, and a friend who isn't playing but wants to write some material for the game, so that will help.

What I want to know is if anybody in the community has any suggestions for getting my players a bit more...invested, I guess...in the game. I want to get them to make decisions and take actions, especially ones that aren't explicitly outlined in the game mechanics. So if anybody has any ideas for providing some incentive for these things, I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

PS, this is in Pathfinder if you think the system might make a difference.

 

[Crothian]

Talk to them. Ask them how they think the game is going. See if they feel they are being railroaded or if they feel their characters have motivations. It is possible they are seeing the game differently then you. Depending on what they say voice your own opinions and get a discussions going.

 

[DaveMage]

Talk to them. Ask them how they think the game is going. See if they feel they are being railroaded or if they feel their characters have motivations. It is possible they are seeing the game differently then you. Depending on what they say voice your own opinions and get a discussions going.

Yep. Pretty much.

 

[Kzach]

You could try beating them. I prefer a nine iron as it has good heft and leverage without being too weighty. Otherwise, do what Crothian says and get back to us.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Talk to them. Ask them how they think the game is going. See if they feel they are being railroaded or if they feel their characters have motivations. It is possible they are seeing the game differently then you. Depending on what they say voice your own opinions and get a discussions going.

This is a great place to start. Some players actually know the adventures are railroads and happily play them anyway. Find out what it is about your game that the players like best. Is it their characters? The system?

Some players only really get engaged with the rules and their characters. The campaign world and any adventures they have are merely two dimensional backdrops against which they get to do awesome stuff.

 

[Tamlyn]

Like Crothian said, talk to them. I had the same concerns with my group. We had all played together under a different DM and felt we had too many choices. We could go in absolutely any direction, pursue any shiny object, and take on any challenge. But we were paralyzed by indecision because we weren't sure what the impact would be or how it would affect the game world.

When I took over as DM, I had a lot of questions for the group. It turns out they want their choices limited. They don't want to be railroaded, per se. They want me to lay down two or three different sets of tracks, with a nudge or two in each direction, and they'll choose which train to ride for a while. I try to stay sensitive to the possibility that I'm removing their ability to choose, but they seem to really be loving the game.

How many options are you giving them?

 

[Loonook]

I just don't want to push my players... I know they're trying to play the field, explore options, sow their wil...

Oh, in game engagement. Personally I believe in a good calibration setting 'sessions' for RL games, and usually run them at least once every 6-8 sessions. Usually I give it about an hour at the beginning of a session (though It may take a whole session if something needs to be worked on/discussed!). It gives a good time to check sheets, make sure everyone is present, accounted for, and properly statted, do all of your 'tune up' operations, and also get a general consensus of how the game is going. I usually don't mind a bit of bad morale among certain types of players (you sign up for a hack and slash dungeon crawl and are upset your high levels of Profession (Floral Arranger) haven't come into play?) but being able to establish an open forum prevents your players AND PCs from suffering.

I have made minor corrections (everyone hated this accent or do we really need to run so many encounters with X layout [Lazy DMing due to work led me to a streak of cookie cutter encounters ]) to major turns in the direction of the game (a PC wants to have been knocked up by that demon they all fought escaping the dungeon... everyone okay with this weird turn of events? Someone is thinking of retiring their character and wants feedback on what to do)... It also gives a good time to just sort of breathe in the gaming space, which when you've been running a lot of back-to-back intense sessions in certain types of games can be nice.

This also prevents character fatigue from setting in. You thought character X sounded good on paper but are not feeling them? Alright, figure out where to go from there. Gives a good outlet for the players to discuss goals, things they might want to bring up, check in on NPCs and plot happenings, and keeps everything running clean.

I'm a big fan of tweaking things until you get them JUST right. It's like tuning a guitar... You're probably near tune, but sometimes you want to get it down to the cent and just have that perfect tone... And sometimes the damn thing doesn't hold the tune after a few rough days of play .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Oryan77]

My experience dealing with players has shown that some things just can't be changed.

I think your example is one of them.

If they are not taking the initiative to do things themselves after you have already tried nudging them to take control (by talking to them or doing it in game), they most likely won't do it.

I had a group just like this and I felt frustrated too. At the end of the day, they simply preferred to be railroaded and that's what I kept doing to them.

It is sort of the same thing with roleplaying. Some guys may want to roleplay, but they just don't. Maybe they get caught up in the dice rolling and don't think to roleplay when the time comes. Or they don't want the attention. I don't know. But I've had guys that were new to D&D that loved playing, and wanted to be good roleplayers, but they just never seemed to get into character when they had the opportunity.

Plus, I don't know how many times I've heard a powergamer say, "I'm a powergamer, but I'd like to focus more on roleplaying my character and less on powergaming." Then when they built their PC and started playing, it was all hack-n-slash from there. I believe they are honest at first, but they are so used to not roleplaying that they just forget to try. That seems similar to people who need to be railroaded.

 

[mazzoli]

I have talked to them, and they like how the game is working, and like I said, I don't mind railroading them if that's what they want. It's just to the point where I'm getting so little to work with that it's really taxing my ability to prepare for our sessions because I don't have anything to build from. I'm just looking for ways to at least try to encourage some decision making from my players so that I don't have to make all of the important decisions for the party and I can have a foundation for planning subsequent sessions.

 

[[OMENRPG]Ben]

There is a lot of sound advice here, and much of what I think is cautious and wise has already been said.

But, I had a group like this. And the way that I fixed it was all in one session.

I sat there and stared at them for about 2 minutes. Once everyone was sufficiently awkwardly put into silence, I asked them "What do you do."

After the first person spoke, I looked at the person to his right until he did the same. I did that for everyone in a circle, and didn't describe anything at all until they all said what they wanted to do.

I then described as best as possible in simultaneous detail what I could to each player individually and tried to combine it and harmonize it as best as possible. All of the players that normally were checked out were very intrigued by this as I normally am very verbose as a GM and sort of seize any opportunity I can for each character.

I kept just asking people what each character was thinking, doing, and I tried to keep as much of it "in character" as possible. If the party met a noble, the noble or his guard captain or his pedantic son would ask someone quiet and typically less engaged out of character a question.

After a few sessions of people going "Huh?" and me replying in character with outrage or cynical humor people were pretty much invested at that point.

One of the other things I think is important is to define some short term goals by challenging the characters and some organizations/causes that they care about.

For example, my "for fun" game that is going on right now is a Star Wars Saga game. One of the players (a Jedi) is typically a very shy guy out of character. This somewhat suits a Jedi padawan as he is generally relegated to a less authoritative zone, but consistently his morals and the Jedi are challenged as a whole.

He learns consistently about people questioning the Jedi's authority or begging for his assistance wherever he goes. Being a Jedi, he usually feels morally compelled to assist in whichever way he can without compromising his major goals (which currently is discovering a lost Jedi and her padawan.)

My point is that you can do it the group collaborative out of character way, which is great, or you can just giving them a proverbial smack in their character's faces and try to engage them that way. One of my proudest moments as a GM was a few years ago when I spent an entire eight hour session in which the party all simply talked in character and asked me questions about how they could do about things or what their character could understand (and make a few rolls) but I never had to poke them to do something.

After a while I just sat there quietly watching them enjoy their characters. I think that this is right at the core element of character investment (it took them nearly a year of my campaign to get to this level, so don't get discouraged) and something that might help your game.

I hope some of this ramble was helpful.