unfortunately not Finally settled, sunder and attacks of opp

[Hypersmurf]

I also want you to tell me, why then, can you use supernatural abilities as thier text denotes, EVEN THOUGH they are listed as a standard action.

This is the same as the Attack action.

The Attack action is a standard action. If I take the Attack action, I can make a single attack.

However, not all attacks are made as part of the Attack action.

The Use Supernatural Ability action is a standard action. For a supernatural ability that takes a standard action to activate, the action you use is the Use Supernatural Ability action... much as casting a spell with a one action casting time uses the Cast a Spell standard action, but casting a spell with a one round casting time uses the Cast a Spell full round action. For a supernatural ability that doesn't take a standard action to activate, as defined in the ability description, you wouldn't use the Use Supernatural Ability standard action.

Like the Bull Rush standard action, which is used for a stand-alone Bull Rush, but not for a Bull Rush made as part of a charge. The Use Supernatural Ability standard action exists and is used sometimes, but not all supernatural abilities use the Use Supernatural Ability standard action.

But if Sunder replaces any melee attack, then the Sunder standard action would never be used, and thus would not exist or appear on the table; you'd use the Attack standard action instead. And Sunder would appear with the other special attacks under Action Type: Varies and carry footnote 7.

Sunder and Use Supernatural Ability are not equivalent in this case.

-Hyp.

 

[bestone]

Sunder and Use Supernatural Ability are not equivalent in this case.

-Hyp.

I can quote the rules, attacks that dont list an action type are considered standard actions.

Edit- Supernatural abilities that dont list an action type, sorry, my bad.

A supernatural ability, by that table, and that rule, that doesnt list an action type. Is then considered a standard action, is it not?

Since it is, A supernatural ability that states "any melee attack made by the creature is increased by blah blah"

By your logic, would be irrelevant, no? you'd have to take the standard action ( supernatural ability) to activate them, even tho they may be constant effects

 

[Hypersmurf]

No it doesnt, and now your contradicting yourself, you stated before without the table you'd agree.

Good grief! I'm not contradicting myself. I said that without the table I'd agree, but the table exists, so there is no 'without the table', and therefore I don't agree.

1. If the table didn't exist, I would agree.
2. If the table exists, I would not agree.
3. The table exists.

I do not agree; this is not contradicting myself. This is the logical consequence of the three statements.

Now if the table is irrelevant, you are still saying you dont agree?

The table isn't irrelevant!

Define the sentence You can use a melee attack to for me?

Given that the table defines Sunder as a standard action and doesn't give it footnote 7?

The sentence means "When you take the Sunder standard action, the form the resolution of the special attack takes is a melee attack".

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A supernatural ability, by that table, and that rule, that doesnt list an action type. Is then considered a standard action, is it not?

Sure.

Since it is, A supernatural ability that states "any melee attack made by the creature is increased by blah blah"

By your logic, would be irrelevant, no? you'd have to take the standard action ( supernatural ability) to activate them, even tho they may be constant effects

Does it list a duration? If not, you'd spend a standard action once to activate it, and it would last forever. Where's the problem?

-Hyp.

 

[bestone]

I give you a very easy way to convince me your argument is true, im not saying that i disgaree with your point of view even, im saying for me it comes down to. Do the rules state what you claim? If the rules state what you claim then what you claim is true. So please, end this, state the rule that supports your claim, and end this.

Your claim being you can ignore the text of a special attack unless you have the action listed in the table to use it. Even if the text of that special attack would give you another option on how to use that attack.

 

[bestone]

Sure.



Does it list a duration? If not, you'd spend a standard action once to activate it, and it would last forever. Where's the problem?

-Hyp.

Sure, except i can quote you a few that state they are always in effect. And dont list duration. IT never says once you have to use a standard action to activate it, the text of it tells you how it works.

Or are you honestly telling me a fang golem has to activate the supernatural ability where its spiky, and any melee attack that it makes has its special effect? This doesnt even make sense.

Again, where is your rules proof?

Stop telling me how things work, and pull rules stating how they work

 

[Hypersmurf]

IT never says once you have to use a standard action to activate it...

It doesn't have to - it's defined elsewhere for you.

Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description).

-Hyp.

 

[bestone]

Now your just being silly

And you know your wrong, dont even pretend otherwise

The abilities description states how it can be used, it can be used that way.

State your rule where you deduce that you in any way can ignore the text of that.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now your just being silly

Hmm? You say "Show me a rule". I show you the rule. You insult me.

That's the rule that says unless the ability states otherwise, using a Su ability is a standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[bestone]

Its admirable you are sticking to your guns, but you have no rules proof to support your claim.

And untill you provide such proof, I am going to consider you wrong.