unfortunately not Finally settled, sunder and attacks of opp

[bestone]

You want to win this argument hyp? all you have to do is tell me where it says, in any rule book, that you cant use a special attack how its listed under the text of the special attack, unless you have a standard action to do so.

You wont find one

You have no proof to support your claim

Its listed under the special attacks how to do them. Doing them like its listed may be a standard action, sure. But regardless of that fact, you read the text of the special ability. Prove you dont read the text of an ability whenever you want to use it.


You can easilly say "well you need a rule to tell you you have to read the text, show me that"

No i dont, The text is the rules, and i read the rules, and the rules tell me what i can do, and what i can do is use my melee attacks to sunder. And my attack of opportunity is a melee attack.

You need to prove how it says anywhere how you can ignore the text. (expecially says ignore whats in a table for what the text of the attack says hah)

 

[bestone]

When you want to use a special attack, an item, a spell, you refer to the text for how it works. An item may be listed as reach in the table, but you have to read it to find it may not be useable adjacent to you. When you want to use a spell, you refer to the text of the spell. When you use a supernatural ability (as listed on your table as a standard action) you refer to the text of the ability on how to use it (and it may very well end up not being a standard action. And finally, when you want to use a special attack, you refer to the text on how to use it.

As we all know what the text for sunder says, we know how you apply it. And its true, under normal circumstances its a standard action, as any normal time in combat you use it, it will at the very least count as one (as your making an attack). But, since the text tells you how you can use it, and tells you that you can use it as a melee attack. Anytime you make a melee attack you can use it to sunder.

 

[mvincent]

I think there's only one reading, and the FAQ, Sage advice, and RotG* have misstated what the rules indicate.

So yes, there's anyone here who believes that

So you cannot empathize with those that view that there is some room for interpretation in the rules? Since that group consists of a lot of people (including several that wrote the original rules), doesn't that give you any indication that your interpretation might be overly strict and inflexible? note: I'm sincerely not trying to dis you or anything (indeed I thank you for your honesty), I just want to view the entire situation logically. To me, such a standpoint seems to lack objectivity and self-analysis.

* You left out the recent Dragon Magazine article

 

[Nail]

You want to win this argument hyp?

bestone, could you tone it down a few notches? Thanks.

I think you'll find that Hypersmurf doesn't set about "wanting to win arguments", at least from what I've seen.

 

[IcyCool]

bestone, could you please point out where it says that Sunder is not a standard action?

 

[bestone]

bestone, could you tone it down a few notches? Thanks.

I think you'll find that Hypersmurf doesn't set about "wanting to win arguments", at least from what I've seen.

I dont have any tone, nor am i angry, Infact i dont really care what people think and i'll run things the way that suits me and my players.

How can you assert my tone from that statement? I was simply telling him how he could prove beyond a doubt in my mind he's right, and what he had to do to accomplish that.........

"prove his claim"

 

[bestone]

bestone, could you please point out where it says that Sunder is not a standard action?

Im not saying it does, read my posts please, before asking me that.

I even go on to state that it doesnt matter if it does.

So again, please read my posts

 

[IcyCool]

But, since the text tells you how you can use it, and tells you that you can use it as a melee attack. Anytime you make a melee attack you can use it to sunder.

(Emphasis mine) Incorrect. The text does not state that you may use sunder as a melee attack. It is quite noticeably worded differently than the two abilities that CAN be used as a melee attack.

 

[Nail]

I dont have any tone, nor am i angry, Infact i dont really care what people think...

I see.

 

[IcyCool]

Im not saying it does, read my posts please, before asking me that.

I've read your posts, and would appreciate less snark, thanks. I'll give you the same courtesy you give me (within the limits of the board rules).