Unified Progression - why level/2?

[Irda Ranger]

My guess is that it had to do with the point where BAB started screwing with the "sweet spot." One of the features of the so-called "Sweet Spot" (Levels 5-12) is that attack bonuses for the various classes are more "in-line." Trying to keep that mathematical relationship throughout the game would lead to some potentially very interesting changes.

I think this is right. 1/2 level+0 and 1/2 level+4 describes the difference between character's modifiers (in 3E) right around level 10. Now it describes their relative skill from levels 1 to 30. Fighters are always 20-30% better at melee combat, and Rangers are always 20-30% better at ranged combat, etc. etc. Everyone has their niche that they excel at, but no one is so sucky at (e.g.,) Will saves that they fail every time.

It also has to do with chopping down the Christmas Tree. Because, let's face it, a 20th level Fighter is either in possession of some serious Will-save boosting items, or he's "easy pickings" or any 20th level Enchanter looking to pick up a powerful thrall. If WotC is going to lessen our dependence on Cloaks of Resistance +5, they've got to do something else to make up the difference.

 

[drothgery]

SWSE also caps characters at Level 20.

... and was trying to emulate movies where contests between uber magic users broke down to swodfights because they couldn't affect each other.

 

[KingCrab]

In addition, if talents and feats work like in Star Wars Saga, characters gain a talent at every odd level, which fits in snugly with this progression.

That seems to make sense, so your character will grow in power each level. From what they were saying before, it seemed each level would give you a new ability though.

 

[The Little Raven]

That seems to make sense, so your character will grow in power each level. From what they were saying before, it seemed each level would give you a new ability though.

I think it's more that each level will give you a new choice, whether it's a feat or a talent/power/whatever.

 

[Atlatl Jones]

Also, it keeps the numerical spread (due to level alone) low; it means that the difference in attack bonuses between a first and ninth level fighter is smaller, meaning that challenges remain, um, challenging for marginally longer.

This seems to be the crux of it. The designers have said that monsters remain usable over a broader range of CRs than in 3e, where a difference of two or three levels made a huge impact on how difficult the monster is.

 

[WhatGravitas]

This seems to be the crux of it. The designers have said that monsters remain usable over a broader range of CRs than in 3e, where a difference of two or three levels made a huge impact on how difficult the monster is.

And that's a good idea. As much as the Epic Level Handbook is maligned, the idea to keep the spread equal was good (ELH gives equal progression for saves and BAB, I guess that's also in the DMG, but I've never read it up there).

Not to say it's not just a practical need, as the d20 only gives a variable value from 1-20 - greater differences between to characters in the same group have very, very odd effects.

So they knew this for a while, and after years of looking at 3E, they've seen that that problem doesn't just start with 20+, but a long time before.

Good move, I think.

Interestingly, it has another effect: While the success/fail rates are kept similar and the big numbers are avoided, you still "feel" getting better, as you roll higher consistently - so we have the good thing "I'm hitting AC 30 without breaking a sweat now" (i.e. progression) without the ugly.

EDIT: That makes *very* clear what they mean with "feels like levels 4 on level 1". It's probably not the survivability (though it may be), but the distinguished feeling of the characters, as on first level, a high Dex wizard can completely out-crossbow the average Dex fighter... which shouldn't happen.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

This seems to be the crux of it. The designers have said that monsters remain usable over a broader range of CRs than in 3e, where a difference of two or three levels made a huge impact on how difficult the monster is.

I think that is also an important point. With a lower span of attack, defense and skill bonuses, you can reuse monsters and NPCs for a longer time, and you don't even have to change your typical encounter setup that often (Beholders, Dragons etc. can be used as "Boss" monsters for a longer time, and "weaker" monsters can be used as such for a longer time, too)

 

[Atlatl Jones]

EDIT: That makes *very* clear what they mean with "feels like levels 4 on level 1". It's probably not the survivability (though it may be), but the distinguished feeling of the characters, as on first level, a high Dex wizard can completely out-crossbow the average Dex fighter... which shouldn't happen.

That's an excellent point. It keeps the relative power level between the classes the same at all classes. In 3e, a first level elf wizard can be the best archer or swordsman in tha game, while at 15th level that wizard is so utterly useless at combat that he should never even try. It fits well for fighters to always be, say, +5 better than wizards at combat.

 

[bgaesop]

Wait, I'm slightly confused. Does "Unified progression of defense, BAB and saves" mean that your defense, BAB, and saves will be the same? If it's +1/2 per level, is that for all classes? Okay, maybe I'm more than slightly confused.

 

[Aage]

Wait, I'm slightly confused. Does "Unified progression of defense, BAB and saves" mean that your defense, BAB, and saves will be the same? If it's +1/2 per level, is that for all classes? Okay, maybe I'm more than slightly confused.

It'd probably look something like this:

BAB, AC, Fort, Ref, Will, (MAB*): ½ character level + relevant ability modifier + class bonus

*Not sure about this one, but it makes sense to have a special attack bonus for magic.

Class bonus will then be the only difference between a fighter and a wizard, and the gap will not become greater nor smaller over time. My guess is that the best class bonuses are +5 and the worst +0, with the others inbetween.