Universal Spontaneous Casting?

drowdude

First Post
I am considering a house rule that will allow all classes to cast from their respective spell-lists spontaneously as a sorcerer does.

Usually I run my games "on-the-fly", and rarely write up NPC spell-lists. This gives the NPCs a major advantage in any situation where spell-use comes into play. This rule would even the playing field I think.

Basically my questions here are:

1.) Should I even really be concerned with this? :p

2.) Would giving existing spontaneous casters (such as sorcerers*) bonus spells known based on their primary attribute help balance them out in comparison?

* It is worth noting that I use a slightly modified versions of Monte's Sorcerer & Bard classes.
 

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You could gust chose the spells as you need them for the NPC which can be very tyring to your Pcs but you have the same effect.
 

las said:
You could gust chose the spells as you need them for the NPC which can be very tyring to your Pcs but you have the same effect.

(disclaimer: The following assumes I understood your post correctly...)

Yes. That is what I do now. I am considering this rule because it is really kinda unfair to force the players to produce spells-memmed lists when the NPCs (usually) face no such restricitons.
 

Thats true but be carfel if you deside to do it that way if you do. You shud give the sorcers more spells slots. You could dobel the ones they have or gust give them one estra at each level.
 

I would not do this. Ever. If you do not like having to prepare spells for your NPCs, use sorcerers instead of wizards as NPC baddies.

The game mechanics are far too finely balanced around the ability to cast spontaneously. Note how wizards are balanced against sorcs. Clerics, especially, would become even deadlier using this house rule, because they could access all spells on the cleric list with ease.

You could consider banning wizards from your campaign, and using shugenjas (spontaneous divine casters from Oriental Adventures) instead of clerics.

What I do for villains IMC if I don't feel like generating spell lists for them is to set aside 2 slots per spell level as "unusable" spells and to simply choose the remainder of their spells on the fly. I find that this somewhat mirrors the fact that not every single spell prepared by a caster will be useful in any given combat. I would do this if I were you, and keep the current spell preparation requirements.
 

ruleslawyer said:
I would not do this. Ever. If you do not like having to prepare spells for your NPCs, use sorcerers instead of wizards as NPC baddies.

You could consider banning wizards from your campaign, and using shugenjas (spontaneous divine casters from Oriental Adventures) instead of clerics.

Thanks for the suggestions but neither of these options suit my tastes.

ruleslawyer said:
The game mechanics are far too finely balanced around the ability to cast spontaneously. Note how wizards are balanced against sorcs. Clerics, especially, would become even deadlier using this house rule, because they could access all spells on the cleric list with ease.

You have a very good point about Clerics. However, IMC that wouldnt be that big of a deal since no one likes playing clerics :p


ruleslawyer said:
What I do for villains IMC if I don't feel like generating spell lists for them is to set aside 2 slots per spell level as "unusable" spells and to simply choose the remainder of their spells on the fly. I find that this somewhat mirrors the fact that not every single spell prepared by a caster will be useful in any given combat. I would do this if I were you, and keep the current spell preparation requirements.

This is a good idea, and is worth considering.
 

Spontaneous casting for all casters works fine for my campaigns. I am a lazy DM for NPC casters too :D That and it saves time for everyone if they just cast from their spells known list, opposed to preparing them every day (it used to take our players too much time to decide which spells to pick when preparing).

Then again, I have a slew of other house rules on casting...but really if you simply give bards and sorcerors a compensation (most likely in the casting department), or impose a few restrictions on the other casting classes, such as having to forego a spell school (or 2+ spell schools, whatever works), or similar, things should remain balanced.
 
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Tarin Greenflame said:
Spontaneous casting for all casters works fine for my campaigns. I am a lazy DM for NPC casters too :D

;)

Tarin Greenflame said:
Then again, I have a slew of other house rules on casting...

Mind sharing them?


Tarin Greenflame said:
but really if you simply give bards and sorcerors a compensation (most likely in the casting department), or impose a few restrictions on the other casting classes, such as having to forego a spell school (or 2+ spell schools, whatever works), or similar, things should remain balanced.

I was thinking that allowing sorcerers (and bards) to add their bonus spells to the total spells known would be sufficient.
 

Sorry for not listing my full house rules for spellcasting earlier. Didn't have enough time :eek: Well, I posted the house rules for my campaigns on an earlier thread, but here goes...oh, and disclaimer: these rules are very unorthodox, and well, not everyone will like them.

The concept of spell slots is thrown out the window. We are lazy, and don't like to keep track of that stuff. That, and really, we felt that it makes more sense for a magic-user casting spells to get mentally/spiritually exhausted, rather than running out of set slots. "Oh no I don't have any more 1st lv spells today, but I'm dandy to cast some 7th lv spells!" does not make much sense to us. In other words, a mage that casts some big spells will be just as exhausted as a mage that casted a bunch of weaker spells. So, instead, we use a spell point system, akin to videogame RPGs, if you will.

1) Every spellcasting class casts spontaneously.

2) Each class gains a certain amount of spell points per level, based on class and their casting-stat modifyer. Wizards and sorcerors are blended as one class. We will call it the Mage to keep things simple.

Bard: Cha mod.

Cleric: Wis mod. + 1 domain spell per spell level, (domain spells remain by slot since they are already pre-set.)

Ranger/Paladin: Wis mod. minus 1, minimum 1 spell point per level.

Mage: Cha or Int mod. +2 (player's choice)

These spell points are used solely for spells per day, except in the case of mages and bards.

3) Spell points accumulate as levels go up. A mage with a +6 total modifyer gains 6 spell points per level. Each spell point equals one level of a spell cast. In other words, with 6 spell points, you can cast 6 1st lv spells, 3 2nd lv spells, or 2 3rd level spells,and so on. That same mage at lv 2 would have 12 spell points, 18 spell points at 3rd, and so on.

4) Cantrips/orisons are automatically known (except for those in opposition schools, see rule #6), and cost no spell points to cast. Cantrips may not be cast, however, if all spellpoints are used for the day, in which case all magical/spiritual energies have been exhausted for the day. Cure minor wounds is banned :D

5) Bards and mages learn spells through spell points. Spell points are allotted in the same manner when learning. So, a bard that gains 4 spell points per level starts out knowing 4 1st lv spells. Once he/she gains the ability to cast 2nd lv spells, he/she may learn 2 2nd lv spells that level, or 1 2nd lv spell and 2 1st lv spells. Upon reaching 3rd lv spells, that bard could learn 1 3rd lv spell and 1 1st lv spell, using his/her 4 spell points. Upon gaining a new level, if a caster hasn't sufficient spellpoints to learn a spell from their highest spell level, their spellpoints for learning spells is raised to that spell level. For instance, a caster with 4 spell points/lv gains access to 6th lv spells. That caster's spell points (for the purposes of learning new spells ONLY) for this level is raised to 6, so that the caster may learn 1 6th lv spell, or 1 5th lv and 1 1st lv spell, and so on.

6) All casters, divine and arcane, must specialize, similar to how wizards do. All benefits of specializing are granted to the caster's main school, with the exception of extra spells per day. Depending on the magic level of the campaign, greater or lesser degrees of specialization can be required. Low-magic campaigns will require casters to forego all schools unadjacent to the caster's specialty school (eh can't remember whether or not the spell school chart and how they are aligned are in the 3E books, but you will need it for these restrictions), mid level magic campaigns may require all opposition schools to be given up, and high magic campaigns will only require the school's direct opposition school (and maybe one other adjacent to the opposition school) to be forsaken. This places a check on the enhanced flexibility of all casting classes, and makes casters more diverse. Domain spells are exempt from the specialization penalties, and thus may be cast whether or not the domain spell is in an opposition school.

7) All metamagic feats that raise the spell slot of a spell, instead raise the spell point cost accordingly. In addition, the feat cannot be used unless the caster can cast the spell at the raised spell level normally. Thus, you cannot maxmize a 3rd lv spell unless you can cast 6th lv spells (since by normal rules it would take up a 6th lv slot), and that maxmized spell will cost 6 spell points. All spells that are enhanced by metamagic feats follow the same rules sorcerors and bards use to cast metamagic-feat enhanced spells.

8) Spell components without a large gp cost are unnecessary, but DM's discretion always applies. The magic-level of the campaign may change this rule. Low magic campaigns may require spell components, no matter how mundane.

I might have forgotten something, but I think that is it. Also there may be a few things which may be exploitable, but we have never had any problems using this system, and it has sped things up for us during our campaigns. It isn't perfect, but it works =p If you need anything that needs clarification, just lemme know.
 

Kewl

Very interesting system Tarin.



I was thinking of using a similar system based off the Deadlands d20 rules.
The basics of that system is (using hucksters/wizards as an example) Int as the base spell points at 1st level and then adding the ability modifier per level thereafter.
Acquistion of spells known is 4 0-1st level spells at 1st level and then their ability modifier in spells.
Spell cost is equal to the spell's level x3.
There is also a skill-check involved during casting, which I always thought was kinda neat (used something similar back in 2e).

That system would of course need a bit of an overhaul (especially in the spell-acquistion department) but I kinda like the feel of it.
 

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