D&D General Unpopular Opinion?: D&D is a terrible venue for horror

[jayoungr]

In my experience horror requires tight pacing to feel right. Games like Cthulhu Dark, Into The Dark, Quietus, and Tremulus really get this right. I have experience using horror elements in other games. My Beam Saber (Forged in the Dark Mecha) game has some strong horror elements as do most Blades in the Dark games I run, but they do not feel nearly as tight and desperate as something like Quietus or Tremulus.

What's your definition of effective horror, though? Is fear of PC death required, for example?

 

[Doug McCrae]

My experience of Call of Cthulhu is that it can do horror, but only if it's run as a oneoff. I've played in a couple of Call of Cthulhu campaigns and imo they both failed because the PCs didn't die and had some success vs monsters. PC persistence is antithetical to horror, but it's a requirement for a campaign in my gaming circles. I didn't find the PC motivations plausible either. Seemingly normal people were acting like D&D adventurers or superheroes in terms of devoting their lives to adventuring and fighting evil.

I left a Trail of Cthulhu game because I thought it would be a single adventure but it turned out to be a campaign. Even the first adventure wasn't horror, by my standards - all the PCs were alive at the end and some sort of evil summoning ritual had been thwarted.

It might be possible to do a horror campaign if the buildup in tension is very slow, and the supernatural stays peripheral for a long time, but it's not something I've ever experienced. It would have to be a much less 'magical' and more quotidian rpg than is the norm.

 

[Oofta]

What's your definition of effective horror, though? Is fear of PC death required, for example?

That's kind of my question as well - people keep listing off games that I have not, and do not have time, to play. I make time for D&D as my RP game, but there simply aren't enough hours.

So, what kind of mechanics are we talking about? What is the goal of those mechanics and why do you feel it makes for a better horror game?

 

[Campbell]

What's your definition of effective horror, though? Is fear of PC death required, for example?

Not at all. I think horror is better when the stakes are more personal. Quietus is a bit of a higher water mark there for me. What's most important to me is a sense of mounting tension and desperation. Horror thrives on dread - not revulsion.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I think "D&D" generally is incorrect, but 5e is certainly correct (and in that manner, I agree with your post).

Generally, I've been able to run "horror scenarios" in D&D. There are two primary ways to do this:

1. Narration. Just like telling a good ghost story, the ability to narrate and place certain emphasis and pacing while describing things can heighten dread and tension. This can help you create that "horror" feeling you are looking for. But while the atmospherics can be wonderful, the issue that you run into is that mechanics don't support it. If everything is just a bag of hit point, then who cares how spoooooooky that bag of hit points might be? The divide between mechanics and atmosphere is difficult to overcome.

2. Mechanics. If you use older editions, there are mechanics (such as aging, level drain, insta-death, and so on) that are legitimately terrifying; these mechanics, or even the thread of these mechanics, can make the game much scarier.

In other words, I agree with you on modern D&D, but it is possible to have a spooky game with older editions if you're looking for it. Put another way, there's a difference between old-school undead and their neutered modern forms.

Ain’t that the truth?

level drains make you clench up before the DM rolls.

ouch.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Im just thinking, the 3 most complimented, best enjoyed games I've ever ran have all been horror, and all need d20 modern. And they've all been psychological horror and the mechanics mattered little

I was here to say something similar. I'm always baffled by people who absolutely entrench themselves in the idea that "D&D can't do X."
All it really proves is that THEY can't do X with D&D.

I've run several campaign arcs that were horror stories, and they are among the best-regarded games I've ever run in the 25+ years I've been DMing. I've run them using AD&D/2e, 3e, Rules Cyclopedia D&D, and 5e. Some used Sanity or similar mechanics, some didn't.

It takes work. But so does running any game.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I've had some nail-biting sessions but they all had some things in common and I think they're important in this order:

1. Foreboding of something bad. (a mysterious death, a gruesome scene, strange noises, an NPC suddenly gets killed or goes missing)

2. Something unknown (usually works best if the players don't know what they are up against)

3. A sense of helplessness. Usually that is related to #2 because the PCs don't know what tools they can use. But also, having to march through knee-high mud, being constantly filthy or covered in (harmless)bugs. Just little things that are annoying at first but can eventually make the players crack.

It's hard to do and, for me, it's happened when I didn't even expect it to. Usually because of how I ended up describing a scene or planned out the encounter or even how the PCs approached a problem that made it more tense than it was designed.

 

[Campbell]

That's kind of my question as well - people keep listing off games that I have not, and do not have time, to play. I make time for D&D as my RP game, but there simply aren't enough hours.

So, what kind of mechanics are we talking about? What is the goal of those mechanics and why do you feel it makes for a better horror game?

It depends a lot on the individual game. Quietus is a game of melancholy horror. You create these characters with tragic histories that the game rewards you for coming into play. It also builds in pacing. Generally you only get to roll a single d6 unless you spend Stress. 1-3 involves failing to do what you hope and facing consequences, 4-5 involves getting what you hope for with a consequence. Only on a 6 do things not get worse for you. As the game starts you are in a risky position which means consequences are fairly light, but as things get worse you get put in a desperate position where consequences just get worse and worse until you are removed from play (although not necessarily dead) unless you manage to pull off important victories.

Here is the original 2 page version of Cthulhu Dark. What makes it compelling to me is that every time you attempt to do something you need to answer the question Is this something a human could or would do? Also does this place my sanity at risk? Having sanity as a die that increases in value that you risk really makes that descent into madness feel palpable. It's also has a wonderful omission. There is no health or combat system. If you face a mythos creature in combat you die.

Just as important as the things these games include are the things they lack. They keep things focused on the fiction because as a player that is all you have. There are very few artifacts of play. No stats. Just the fiction. It makes it harder to provide distance from your character and the situation. Tremulus and Into The Dark do have more defined character sheets, but no like defined mechanics for GM stuff. The more defined something is the more emotional distance we are able to create.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm always baffled by people who absolutely entrench themselves in the idea that "D&D can't do X."
All it really proves is that THEY can't do X with D&D.

Part of it is down to different definitions for what counts as horror. Someone who uses a strict definition will consider it harder to do horror in D&D than someone who uses a broad definition.

This is apparent in this thread. The people who think horror is hard to do seem to be using narrower definitions than those who think it's easy. @Reynard, the OP, thinks that it's hard to do horror in D&D. They also use a strict definition of horror. Frex, Reynard does not consider the movie Predator to be horror, while others, including myself, do.

@Bawylie otoh uses a broad definition of horror. He considers the movie Aliens to be horror, which several others in the thread do not. Bawylie seems to think it's easier to do horror in D&D than Reynard does.

 

[Dire Bare]

Unpopular opinion? Maybe.

But I strongly disagree. Horror is as broad a genre as fantasy is . . . and I do think that classic or "core" D&D isn't a horror game, although it certainly incorporates aspects of the genre.

But adventures like Curse of Strahd and Rime of the Frostmaiden are genre blends of classic fantasy and horror, bringing together two different genres like peanut butter and chocolate. They can be played differently by each group, either leaning harder into the fantasy or harder into the horror . . . .

But horror is very much possible . . . at all levels. It's a matter of tone and atmosphere, which isn't always easy to be pulled off by inexperienced (or unskilled) DMs.

Horror-infused D&D seems to be on the rise, with Curse of Strahd (original or revamped), Rime of the Frostmaiden, and Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos and upcoming Planet Apocalypse (both for 5E).