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Upgradeable Alternative Rewards

the Jester

Legend
So I've been pondering the magic item treadmill in 4e (must have adequate enhancement boni, aarrrrr!). I'm not a fan of inherent bonuses for their own sake, but I love alternative rewards like grandmaster training, divine boons, fey gifts, etc. So I got to thinking.

What about a system where many of the rewards are grandmaster training options? Normally, such an ability fades over time, but what if you gave an option to upgrade?

Here's my rough sketch of an idea; I'll post a few examples in a bit, after I work some up.

my notes said:
Many forms of grandmaster training are available as rewards from guilds, criminal organizations, the military, etc. In general, when a character gains a grandmaster training option, he or she has the option to upgrade it at any time by spending the difference in the values on training costs (such as hiring a mentor or a series of sparring partners, research fees, sacrifices to the gods, etc). Often, membership in an appropriate organization will offset some of the cost, allow the character to take out a loan, etc. This training process takes a number of days equal to the new level of the training. If a character does not upgrade a grandmaster training type before reaching 1 level higher than the version he has, he or she loses that grandmaster training.

What do you think? My biggest concern at the moment is cost, but if I offer upgrades (and training in the first place) as a reward for undertaking missions for the various organizations (e.g. "rub out this politician and the Grey Brotherhood will teach you the Shadow Style grandmaster training"), then it might be viable... especially if the deal comes with a "one time free upgrade" clause or something, perhaps.

Examples to come!
 

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What do you think? My biggest concern at the moment is cost, but if I offer upgrades (and training in the first place) as a reward for undertaking missions for the various organizations (e.g. "rub out this politician and the Grey Brotherhood will teach you the Shadow Style grandmaster training"), then it might be viable... especially if the deal comes with a "one time free upgrade" clause or something, perhaps.
Tying advancement to narrative hooks is always a great idea.
 

Here are some first draft examples of the kinds of rewards I'm tinkering with; one of them is explicitly designed to replace magic weapons.


CHALLENGE --- Level 1 Common
You are able to catch the attention of an enemy, whether he likes it or not.
Lvl 1: 360 gp
Lvl 11: 9,000 gp
Lvl 6: 1,800 gp
Lvl 16: 45,000 gp
Lvl 21: 225,000 gp
Lvl 26: 1,125,000 gp
Grandmaster Training (the Army)
Power (Daily):
Minor action. You mark one enemy within 5 squares that you can see. This mark lasts until the end of the encounter or until you end your turn without attacking the marked creature.
Level 6- The mark lasts until the end of the encounter or until you make an attack that does not include the marked creature as a target.
Level 11- The power is instead an encounter power.
Level 16- The target is one enemy within 10 squares that you can see.
Level 21- In addition, whenever you hit the marked target with an attack, you gain 5 temporary hit points.
Level 26- In addition, whenever you hit the marked target with an attack, you gain 10 temporary hit points.

COMBAT MAGE --- Level 3 Uncommon
You are adept at using your spells at the slightest opportunity.
Lvl 3: 680 gp
Lvl 8: 3,400 gp
Lvl 13: 17,000 gp
Lvl 18: 85,000 gp
Lvl 23: 425,000 gp
Lvl 28: 2,125,000 gp
Grandmaster Training (the Army, high-level NPC wizards who have seen much battle)
Power (Daily):
Immediate Reaction. Trigger: An ally within 5 squares makes an opportunity attack against an enemy that you can see. Effect: You use an arcane at-will attack that targets the triggering enemy. If the attack is an area attack, it must be centered on the triggering enemy.
Level 8: You gain combat advantage on your attack roll against the triggering enemy.
Level 13: The power becomes an encounter power.
Level 18: An enemy within 10 squares.
Level 23: Trigger: An enemy within 10 squares takes an action that normally provokes opportunity attacks.
Level 28: If you hit the triggering enemy with this attack, its turn immediately ends.

DUNGEONEERING EXPERT --- Level 5 Uncommon
With training, you have learned many tricks for surviving and successfully delving in dungeons.
Lvl 5: 1,000 gp
Lvl 10: 5,000 gp
Lvl 15: 25,000 gp
Lvl 20: 125,000 gp
Lvl 25: 625,000 gp
Lvl 30: 3,125,000 gp
Grandmaster Training (High-level retired adventurers)
Property:
You gain a +2 bonus to defenses against traps and hazards.
Property: You gain a +2 bonus to checks made to counteract or disable traps and hazards and to open locks.
Level 10: You gain a +2 bonus to checks made to find secret doors, climb and swim.
Level 15: The bonuses granted by this ability increase to +3.
Level 20: You gain the following power.
Power (Daily): Immediate Interrupt. Trigger: You are the target of a trap or hazard. Effect: Shift 3 squares.
Level 25: The bonuses granted by this ability increase to +4.
Level 30: You gain resist 10 all against traps and hazards.

EXPERT CON MAN --- Level 2 Uncommon
Your time on the streets has helped you to learn how to use patter to con even the most suspicious individuals.
Lvl 2: 520 gp
Lvl 7: 2,600 gp
Lvl 12: 13,000 gp
Lvl 17: 65,000 gp
Lvl 22: 325,000 gp
Lvl 27: 1,625,000 gp
Grandmaster Training (Thieves' Guilds)
Property:
You gain a +2 bonus to Bluff checks.
Level 7: You also gain the following power:
Power (Daily): Minor action. The next time you roll a Bluff check before the end of your next turn, you can roll twice and take the better result.
Level 12: Your bonus to Bluff checks increases to +3.
Level 17: When you succeed on a Bluff check against all of its targets, you may shift 1 square as a free action.
Level 22: Your bonus to Bluff checks increases to +4.
Level 27: The daily power gains “Sustain minor.”


THRUSH STYLE --- Level 3 Common
You know how to use heavy blades in the style of the Sword Emperor himself.
Lvl 3: +1 680 gp
Lvl 8: +2 3,400 gp
Lvl 13: +3 17,000 gp
Lvl 18: +4 85,000 gp
Lvl 23: +5 425,000 gp
Lvl 28: +6 2,125,000 gp
Grandmaster Training (the Army)
Property:
You gain the listed enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls with heavy blades.
Property: If you score a critical hit with a heavy blade, you deal an extra 1d6 damage. If you are using a magic weapon, this overlaps with that weapon's bonus damage on a critical.
Level 8- The extra damage increases to +2d6.
Level 13- The extra damage increases to +3d6.
Level 18- The extra damage increases to +4d6.
Level 23- The extra damage increases to +5d6.
Level 28- The extra damage increases to +6d6.
Power (Daily * Stance): Minor action. You adopt the Thrush style stance. While in this stance, you gain a +1d4 bonus to critical hit severity with heavy blades.
Level 8- The bonus increases to +2d4.
Level 13- The bonus increases to +2d6.
Level 18- The bonus increases to +2d8.
Level 23- The bonus increases to +3d6.
Level 28- The bonus increases to +3d8.
Design Notes: Compare to a deadly weapon- the stance is a daily power, not a property, but can apply with any heavy blade and gives a significantly better bonus. With the damage bonus on a crit, this replaces a magic heavy blade. (NOTE: This won't make any sense on ENWorld, since it relies on my colorful critical hit system.)
 


Here are some first draft examples of the kinds of rewards I'm tinkering with; one of them is explicitly designed to replace magic weapons.
Ooooh interesting.. I am actively upgrading Martial Practices and having one called Grand Mastery which allows one to be able to create Regimen which support Grand Master Training effects is on the list. Regimen are actions/daily activities which allow one to maintain a GMT... no fade if you follow the regimen.
 

So I've been pondering the magic item treadmill in 4e (must have adequate enhancement boni, aarrrrr!). I'm not a fan of inherent bonuses for their own sake, but I love alternative rewards like grandmaster training, divine boons, fey gifts, etc. So I got to thinking.

What about a system where many of the rewards are grandmaster training options? Normally, such an ability fades over time, but what if you gave an option to upgrade?

Here's my rough sketch of an idea; I'll post a few examples in a bit, after I work some up.



What do you think? My biggest concern at the moment is cost, but if I offer upgrades (and training in the first place) as a reward for undertaking missions for the various organizations (e.g. "rub out this politician and the Grey Brotherhood will teach you the Shadow Style grandmaster training"), then it might be viable... especially if the deal comes with a "one time free upgrade" clause or something, perhaps.

Examples to come!

I have been thinking of granting alongside other treasure .. karma points which similarly pay for the analogous legendary boons/blessings, much of the time it might be done under the hood and dm tracked.
 

I have been thinking of granting alongside other treasure .. karma points which similarly pay for the analogous legendary boons/blessings, much of the time it might be done under the hood and dm tracked.
I definitely wouldn't have it DM-tracked, but an alternative/extra "currency" for legendary/karma/blessing awards is a really interesting idea, I think. I have already been thinking of separating off "Residuum" as the "magic item stuff" so that money and magic items are not handled under the same resource, and an additional or alternative "karma" or "piety" economy (possibly specific to a character, rather than the party-resource that money and residuum give) for "inherent" boons could be useful.

Thanks!
 

I definitely wouldn't have it DM-tracked, but an alternative/extra "currency" for legendary/karma/blessing awards is a really interesting idea, I think. I have already been thinking of separating off "Residuum" as the "magic item stuff" so that money and magic items are not handled under the same resource, and an additional or alternative "karma" or "piety" economy (possibly specific to a character, rather than the party-resource that money and residuum give) for "inherent" boons could be useful.

Thanks!
Yeh i do hate tracking things myself players do seem to like to tracking gold and especially if one of them has the feat which I made up that allows teaching regima (or create binding oaths or taboos) it can have fairly direct visible value like gold.

At some level I consider it very kin to the regency points from Birthright.
 

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