D&D 5E Upgrading the Anti-Magic of Fighters and Barbarians

Stalker0

Legend
While 5th edition does some good work to reduce the gap between Martials and spellcasters, I find the gap is there nonetheless. The issue is that magic takes on more and more of the non-combat aspect of the game. Climb and Jump are replaced with Fly, overland travel replaced with Teleport. Investigation replaced with divination.

Now I accept that magic is just extremely versatile, so its an inevitability at some point. However, while I respect that martials have to stay somewhat "mortal", I don't think they get enough anti-magic abilities. If the wizard can summon amazing magics, a fighters should be able to knock it down because they are "just that awesome". A 20th level wizard can alter the fabric of reality, and yet should be sweating bullets in the presence of a 20th level fighter....for no magic can take down this epitome of martial prowess. The wizard owns the non-combat stuff, but nothing is more feared than the highest level warriors in melee.

So with that in mind, I have made some subtle yet important tweaks to two of the core fighting classes. I may do it with the other martials as well, but I wanted to get people thoughts on this to start. Ultimately some of these are big power boosts especially at the highest levels, but I feel that when spellcasters are chucking 8th and 9th level spells around, this is not that big a boost at all.


Fighter:Indomitable. At 9th level, a fighter can choose to automatically pass a saving throw they just failed. They can do this 1/day. At 13th level, the fighter can do this 2/day. The spell has no effect, and the fighter takes no damage. If faced with a spell that doesn't have a saving throw, the fighter can use this ability to ignore the spell's effects for 1 round. At 17th level, the fighter can use this ability 1/round, in addition to his daily uses.

--Commentary: So the idea here is to give the fighter some truly epic defenses against magic. Forcecage, walls of force? Bah...child's play to the blade that can cut elder demons and ancient dragons. So periodically the fighter just doesn't have to deal with magic. He goes where he must, and no wizard can stop him. And then at the point where wizard's are chucking wishes, the fighter gains a general immunity to various effects. Wizard alter reality if you wish, but bring your magics upon the greatest fighters in the land, and you will be sorry.


Barbarian: Brutal Critical. At 9th level, a barbarian gains 1 extra dice when doing a critical hit. Further, 1/day they can turn any regular hit into a critical. At 13th level, the barbarian can do this 2/day. If the ability is used to target a spell that is destroyed with a disintegrate effect, the spell is destroyed. At 17th level, the barbarian can use this ability 1/round, in addition to their daily uses.

--Commentary: So the barbarian goes a more offensive style of anti-magic. First, they get a more consitent offense with their crits, but now they can use them to break through forcecages and certain other protections that are normally invincible. They aren't as generally magic defensive as the fighter, but they can actually destroy certain forms of magic with their attacks.


So with this, we have martial warriors that are significantly stronger at the higher levels than their current incarnations...but I think is more fitting to stand next to the spellcasters controlling weather, communing with the gods, and altering reality with a thought.
 
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Li Shenron

Legend
Well, I was fine with unlimited Indomitable in 5e playtesting, so I am thinking the Fighter house rule should be interesting.

Not so keep on the Barbarian one, as the class already deals plenty of damage, and criticals will be used against everyone not just spellcasters.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
While 5th edition does some good work to reduce the gap between Martials and spellcasters, I find the gap is there nonetheless. The issue is that magic takes on more and more of the non-combat aspect of the game. Climb and Jump are replaced with Fly, overland travel replaced with Teleport. Investigation replaced with divination.
I have played twice up to about level 15-17.

In my experience Fly and divination plays a very small role. The Wizard is seldom attracted to the option of using her Concentration on the Fighter. (We haven't seen even a single round of Fly!) So I can safely say Climb and Jump remain relevant and useful for many many levels. Our martials love to increase their speed and equip items that allow longer jumps, faster climbs and swimming without checks etc. I'm talking ten levels easy - a most welcome change from how D&D in 3rd edition quickly became very superhero-like with everybody flying all over the place!

At really high levels, Teleport or Wind Walk become really convenient, but I wouldn't say that detracts from the Fighter experience, or makes casters feel more important.

Just to add my 2 cents.
 


mortwatcher

Explorer
Making a challenge for a high level figher/barbarian is already challenging enough. Good luck with these changes, they might be even more bored as literally nothing can challenge them in the combat pillar, while these changes do virtually nothing for the non-combat pillars, where they actually struggle.

I would say these changes are a solid no for me.
 


jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Fighter:Indomitable. At 9th level, a fighter can choose to automatically pass a saving throw they just failed. They can do this 1/day. At 13th level, the fighter can do this 2/day. The spell has no effect, and the fighter takes no damage. If faced with a spell that doesn't have a saving throw, the fighter can use this ability to ignore the spell's effects for 1 round. At 17th level, the fighter can use this ability 1/round, in addition to his daily uses.
Just in terms of clarification does the auto-save only work for saves vs. spells? Or for any effect you save against. I think the second effect would be too ambiguous for me to use. A fighter can just walk through my wall of stone? See and attack me while I am ethereal? Be invulnerable to my summoned demon? What if I just plain teleported away, can he stop me?

The 1/round ability applies to the auto-save, or just the "ignore a spell" ability? Either way seems too strong to me.

Barbarian: Brutal Critical. At 9th level, a barbarian gains 1 extra dice when doing a critical hit. Further, 1/day they can turn any regular hit into a critical. At 13th level, the barbarian can do this 2/day. If the ability is used to target a spell that is destroyed with a disintegrate effect, the spell is destroyed. At 17th level, the barbarian can use this ability 1/round, in addition to their daily uses.
I might word it as "The barbarian can also expend one use of this ability and make a (melee?) weapon attack against a magical effect. If the magical effect can be destroyed by the disintegrate spell, then the effect is destroyed by the attack."

Again, is the 1/round just the disintegrate effect, or the turning any hit into a crit? The latter is I think too powerful, and the former I think not really necessary. (I think this is a nice ability, but how often will it come up?)
 

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