D&D 5E Upping Challenges for 7 Players

[Retreater]

3.5 style damage reduction & resistance is your friend as it will apply a flat reduction to every attack & spell by every player.

The monster in question (a shadow dragon from a 3PP adventure) had resistance to all damage - excepting radiant (which accounted for only one attack).

Why was the dragon in melee range?

I roll in the open. It's Initiative stunk. The druid summoned in dire wolves, who got it before it could get fully airborne and dragged it to the ground.

And why did it stay in melee range? It was pinned under a folding boat. There was nothing I could think to do, and I have been DMing since the 1990s. Essentially, I was painted into a corner. The dragon was a loner, in a hard to reach cave (120 ft up a cliff).

Anything I'd do would seem cheap and reek of desperately trying to snatch a victory from these teenagers who were very excited about what was happening.

What I need to do is to set up future encounters so that something this stupid and anti-climactic never happens again. And I think it's obvious that there's too many players to be able to use any of 5e RAW - especially now that they're mid-level (5th level).

 

[billd91]

Anything I'd do would seem cheap and reek of desperately trying to snatch a victory from these teenagers who were very excited about what was happening.

What I need to do is to set up future encounters so that something this stupid and anti-climactic never happens again. And I think it's obvious that there's too many players to be able to use any of 5e RAW - especially now that they're mid-level (5th level).

These two paragraphs seem very much in conflict. If the teens were excited about what was happening - was it really anti-climactic or stupid?

 

[Stormonu]

I agree with the others on extra HP, legendary actions & resistances.
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That said (and while I admire the PC's inventiveness), how did the folding boat pin the dragon? It only weighs 4 lbs., and if you look at the picture in the DMG, it's illustrated as basically a canvas boat or inflatable raft with a few metal rods for the frame. And being pinned shouldn't have at least kept it from breathing fire, I would think.

 

[Retreater]

These two paragraphs seem very much in conflict. If the teens were excited about what was happening - was it really anti-climactic or stupid?

Ok...they shoved the folding boat up the dragon's behind, spoke the command word, and turned it into a sailing-boat-sized suppository.
And technically, by the rules, there's nothing where it technically wouldn't work. Even if we say that it wasn't actually inserted, the dragon was pinned under the boat for a round. And that was enough to kill it.
I just don't want my games devolving into this level of farcical clown shoes ever again.
So I guess it was "anti-climactic and stupid" to ME. And like I hear my players say they've never really had a tense, awesome fight with a dragon and it turns into this kind of "mockery."

 

[Retreater]

And being pinned shouldn't have at least kept it from breathing fire, I would think.

Being a shadow dragon, it has a breath weapon of a 30 ft line of necrotic damage. The party was well out of range for that.

 

[billd91]

Ok...they shoved the folding boat up the dragon's behind, spoke the command word, and turned it into a sailing-boat-sized suppository.
And technically, by the rules, there's nothing where it technically wouldn't work. Even if we say that it wasn't actually inserted, the dragon was pinned under the boat for a round. And that was enough to kill it.
I just don't want my games devolving into this level of farcical clown shoes ever again.
So I guess it was "anti-climactic and stupid" to ME. And like I hear my players say they've never really had a tense, awesome fight with a dragon and it turns into this kind of "mockery."

But the teens enjoyed the game, right?
Maybe you should consider adjusting your expectations to work with a bunch of teenagers instead of implying they're mocking the game by not approaching it with a "proper" degree of serious contemplation.

 

[kenada]

I roll in the open. It's Initiative stunk. The druid summoned in dire wolves, who got it before it could get fully airborne and dragged it to the ground.

And why did it stay in melee range? It was pinned under a folding boat. There was nothing I could think to do, and I have been DMing since the 1990s. Essentially, I was painted into a corner. The dragon was a loner, in a hard to reach cave (120 ft up a cliff).

Anything I'd do would seem cheap and reek of desperately trying to snatch a victory from these teenagers who were very excited about what was happening.

What I need to do is to set up future encounters so that something this stupid and anti-climactic never happens again. And I think it's obvious that there's too many players to be able to use any of 5e RAW - especially now that they're mid-level (5th level).

So the party broke into the dragon’s lair and got the drop on it? That seems like it should make for a cool adventure, and killing the dragon would be chocolate fudge and sprinkles on the sundae.

Otherwise, I’d expect a dragon to be flying around and making things difficult rather than sit there waiting for them to come beat on it.

 

[tetrasodium]

The monster in question (a shadow dragon from a 3PP adventure) had resistance to all damage - excepting radiant (which accounted for only one attack).

I roll in the open. It's Initiative stunk. The druid summoned in dire wolves, who got it before it could get fully airborne and dragged it to the ground.

And why did it stay in melee range? It was pinned under a folding boat. There was nothing I could think to do, and I have been DMing since the 1990s. Essentially, I was painted into a corner. The dragon was a loner, in a hard to reach cave (120 ft up a cliff).

Anything I'd do would seem cheap and reek of desperately trying to snatch a victory from these teenagers who were very excited about what was happening.

What I need to do is to set up future encounters so that something this stupid and anti-climactic never happens again. And I think it's obvious that there's too many players to be able to use any of 5e RAW - especially now that they're mid-level (5th level).

5e style resistance is useless & just the equivalent of doubling HP when it hits everyone. 3.x style was a flat value that couldbe targeted at the biggest boomstick spells & weapons

 

[Retreater]

So the party broke into the dragon’s lair and got the drop on it? That seems like it should make for a cool adventure, and killing the dragon would be chocolate fudge and sprinkles on the sundae.

Otherwise, I’d expect a dragon to be flying around and making things difficult rather than sit there waiting for them to come beat on it.

Yeah. Kind of. The dragon was hidden in the shadows, waiting for the party to come into its lair. They were walking through a tunnel, and the dragon was there, slinked up in position to hit them with its 30' line breath weapon. The druid got an EXCEPTIONAL perception roll, called everyone's attention to it. The dragon then got something like a 4 for Initiative - and was effectively dead within a full turn. We're talking a creature with an 18 AC, 130 HP with resistance to almost all damage completely and utterly ruined by a party of 5th level characters.
It was a farce.

But the teens enjoyed the game, right?
Maybe you should consider adjusting your expectations to work with a bunch of teenagers instead of implying they're mocking the game by not approaching it with a "proper" degree of serious contemplation.

Well, I DID let their plan work.
But I don't want this to become the norm - because I've been there as a teenager, and this is when half the players leave the hobby. "All we did was stick stuff up the butts of dragons."

 

[kenada]

Yeah. Kind of. The dragon was hidden in the shadows, waiting for the party to come into its lair. They were walking through a tunnel, and the dragon was there, slinked up in position to hit them with its 30' line breath weapon. The druid got an EXCEPTIONAL perception roll, called everyone's attention to it. The dragon then got something like a 4 for Initiative - and was effectively dead within a full turn. We're talking a creature with an 18 AC, 130 HP with resistance to almost all damage completely and utterly ruined by a party of 5th level characters.
It was a farce.

Was it a farce, though? They saw through the dragon’s attempt to ambush them, and then they beat the crap out of it. It sounds like they had fun, and isn’t that the important part?