Use Rope Useless?

Only true if your in a profession that doesn't use ropes often. With all the knots and uses out there, you'd need a skill to know them all. The phase 'if you can't tie a knot, tie alot..' just doesn't cut it all the time...

Things a thief might want to know...
If you have two pieces of rope, what knot is guaranteed not to come undone when when you tie them together?

I agree that the skill can be (somewhat) rolled into other skills such as Profession or Survival, but you'll only know what you need to know for said skill.
However, with the options that a good rope provides (great for disarming folks...) a skill monger like the rogue may do well to take the skill, using it to the best of his ability.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

Storyteller01 said:
Only true if your in a proession that doesn't use ropes often. With all the knots and uses out there, you'd need a skill to know them all. The phase 'if you can't tie a knot, tie alot..' just doesn't cut it all the time...

OK. That's great for professions that use ropes. How does that help out a D&D character? Will it really make a difference that I tie a sheep-shank rather than a slip knot? How does this enhance the game?
 

It does if your DM knows his knots :)

You could (in theory) use both to seal an outward swinging door. Slip knot on the door knob/latch, another on a secure object on the other side of the room. You can modify the Str check to pull it open based on the rope use roll.

Granted, they could just break down the door, but that's effort spent on their part, and more time for you.
 
Last edited:

I have not seen anyone use the skill, ever. But I have not see anyone use Forgery either.

I think it also a skill that doesn't scale well, what is someone who has 12 ranks in Rope Use supposed to be able to do? Tie his own shoelaces with his teeth while having his eyes closed? I think investing 5 ranks gets you all possible training concerning Rope Use you ever need.

I would allow PCs with Profession(Sailor) or Survival use their skill modifiers to tie ropes.
 

I think the idea I like the best is combining it with survival or Climb. I understand that certain knots might be better than others, especially the slip knot, but most times the PC's won't care if they can't get it back for some reason, and secondly they'll just complain that if they tie a dozen knots in a rope that it won't slip.
 

soulforge said:
I think the idea I like the best is combining it with survival or Climb. I understand that certain knots might be better than others, especially the slip knot, but most times the PC's won't care if they can't get it back for some reason, and secondly they'll just complain that if they tie a dozen knots in a rope that it won't slip.


I'm in the minority here, but...

If you tie those dozen knots, will you have enough rope for what you need?
Would you trust your life trying to repel on that kind of knot?

I know, doesn't matter, it's a game, but it's this type of thinking that gets my players going...
 

You obviously have not read the Book of Erotic Fantasy regarding Use Rope. ;)

On a more serious note, Use Rope works for anytime the characters have to make use of a rope. Tying a note on a piton just before climbing a rock cliff, tying up prisoners (as noted above), throwing a grapple hook onto a roof, setting a trap using a rope (such as a tripwire), etc. It's really not a useless skill unless the DM makes it useless. I make use of just about everyone of the listed skills in my campaigns. :)
 

... Wow. I use Use Rope all the time. I think it's one of the most useful skills no one uses.
 

The Intuit Rope skill is nerfed, and has always been so. The problem is that it is done wrong, and doing it right requires a knowledge of knots that most people aren't willing to develop simply for use in the game...

In 3.0e, my solution (which WotC chose not to accept) was to remove the skill. Knots involved with climbing (such as the Bowline, mentioned in "tie a knot around yourself with one hand") were tied with the Climb skill, while those used in shelter-building, etc., were tied via Survival. Hitting the target projection with a grapnel was done using BAB.

The real problem that I see with Use Rope, however (besides its general uselessness), is that all knots (apparently) are DC:15. This is clearly ridiculous! (And off we go on a rant about knot-lore!)

A rope has two ends... The "free" (or "working") end, and the "standing" end, which is usually tied off. When you bring the free end alongside the standing end, the U-shaped part is known as a "bight". When you cross the free end over or under the standing part, you have formed a loop... Now, pass the free end through the loop, and you have the simplest knot of all, the Overhand Knot.

The Overhand Knot is so simple and easy to tie, that it is (IMHO) about DC:2, not DC:15. You MIGHT be able to fail to tie it correctly, on a fumble, but that's about it. This, IMHO, is the REAL problem with the Use Rope skill... Knots need different ratings, and different skills that they can be tied with (Profession: Sailor giving lots of knots used aboard ship, Profession: Driver giving those used in hauling freight (such as the Stevedore's knot), as well as those used in hitching horses (as would anyone with the Ride skill), etc.

Of course, once we start doing that, the PHB (or .PDF on knots) becomes a knots book! Now, every knot needs a DC, list of skills which can be used to tie it, catogory or categories into which it fits (climbing, fishing, freighting, hitching, sailing, etc). Simply providing a list of DCs is not enough... It makes little or no sense to provide a table saying:

Knot ....................... DC
Overhand .................. 2
Half-Hitch .................. 2
Granny Knot ............... 2
Blackwall Hitch ............ 3
Square Knot ............... 3
Double Overhand ......... 4
Marlinspike Hitch ......... 4
Slippery Hitch ............. 4
Two Half Hitches ......... 4
Figure Eight Knot ......... 5
Figure Eight Double ...... 5
Overhand Bow ............. 5
Surgeon's Knot ............ 5
Bow Knot .................. 10
Clove Hitch ................ 10
Fisherman's Bend ........ 10
Lark's Head ................ 10
Running Knot .............. 10
Sailor's Knot ............... 10
Sheepshank ............... 10
Sheet Bend ................ 10
Stevedore's Knot ......... 10
Timber Hitch ............... 10
Miller's Knot ................ 11
Double Carrich Bend ..... 12
Lariat Loop ................. 12
Midshipman's Hitch ....... 12
Sheet Bend Double ....... 12
Taut-line Hitch ............ 12
Tiller Hitch .................. 12
Chain Hitch ................. 13
Rolling Hitch ................ 13
Bowline ...................... 15
Bowline on Bight .......... 15
Cat's Paw ................... 15
Fisherman's Knot .......... 15
Fisherman's Eye ........... 15
Halyard Bend ............... 15
Hitching Tie ................. 15
Killich Hitch .................. 15

The above is nearly useless, without an explanation of the uses for, and directions on tying, each type of knot! Besides, most people can tie their shoes (even under pressure), but couldn't tie other knots with a DC of 10 or less, because they've never needed to learn! (With this system, taking 10 would allow you to tie quite a few knots that most people wouldn't know how to, but at least all commoners would be able to tie their shoes... if they had any! ;) Also, as you gained ranks, you would automatically be able to tie certain knots without needing to roll, as you'd be unable to fail!)

And besides all of THAT, you will very quickly find out that the SAME knot has many different names, depending upon who uses it, and for what... The "Taut-line Hitch", for instance, is often called a "Ladder Hitch", by Firemen, and is nearly the same as the "Sailor's Knot".

Worst of all, of course, is the FACT that the above table is TOTALLY arbitrary, based solely upon my own views of how difficult it is to remember how to tie a particular knot, and not upon any real, objective basis...

Even if we wrote an entire .PDF on knots, their uses, what skills could be used to tie them, and how difficult they are to tie, the kicker is:

Ask yourself this question: What does it add to the game to have PCs succeed or fail to tie a knot?

Oh, sure, you can require a Use Rope check to tie off a rope before climbing, and then tell the player that their PC dies when the rope comes undone, and they fall to their doom... but, personally, I don't see that this adds anything to the game. YMMV.

IMHO, it is better to simply say that all climbers know climbing knots, all survivalists know survival-shelter-building knots, all drovers know hitching and freighting knots, all sailors know sailor & fishermen knots, etc.

Anything else is too much work for too little gain (and don't even get me started on the DC of the Gordian Knot!)...

Ciao!
 
Last edited:

Storyteller01 said:
Things a thief might want to know...
If you have two pieces of rope, what knot is guaranteed not to come undone when when you tie them together?

Same or different diameters? Do you want a quick release? Single knots or double? The answer differs on the specifics.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* The few times I have goten to play I have used it, but my players have only used it maybe three times.
 

Remove ads

Top